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The problem is that Europe is a vassal. If Russia invades then the US will have to help defend Europe. Trump was right that European countries should spend more

The problem is that Europe is a vassal. If Russia invades then the US will have to help defend Europe. Trump was right that European countries should spend more on defence, but at the same time very dishonest about the quid pro quo going on. Free rein for US companies, the Mastercard tax, the Visa Tax... Also for too long European defence spending actually means buying weapons from the US. Europe should spend more on defence and spend it at home, but that is the opposite of what Trump wants.

hef19898 3y ago
A vassal? This is getting better and better... Sonall NATO memebers are subservient vassal states of the US, Japan is what? An occupied territory? Just as a heads up: Trump ain't President at the moment, and when he was, the US was weak they ever were...
simonh 3y ago
All true, but I think it's also broader than that. Europe is massively dependent on the US guaranteeing freedom of navigation globally. They're the only power capable of patrolling and defending every major sea lane simultaneously. The Houthi attacks in the Red Sea are affecting everybody. It's good to see the UK and now India get involved, but without the US the Houthis would more or less have free reign. Germany, Japan, even China plus many others are just as affected by it but what are they doing? What could they do?
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  It remains to be seen what even the US can do in the Red Sea. Will playing whack-a-mole with Houthis help, as long as their backer Iran is left alone? (Not saying attacking Iran is a good idea, mind you! These things are complicated.) The Red Sea will have to be pretty calm for a long time before shipments are routed there again. The Houthis need to strike only very occasionally to deny shipping.
gessha 3y ago
EU spending less on war means they can spend more on social services and public investments. Vacations, higher salaries, healthcare, etc. In a better world the US would do that too. But they don’t because they need to protect trade (and democracy). That’s why US defense spending is larger than most EU country GDPs. To balance that, healthcare here sucks, my car get roughed up by the potholes, bridges cost an arm and a leg, no vacation for workers, minimum wage is not enough pay to feed a family/upskill, etc.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  There's a lot of truth to that, but something more is going on when the US spends comparably what the EU spends on healthcare but gets much worse outcomes.
- michaelt 3y ago
  Google tells me France has a GDP per capita of US$43,600 and the US a GDP per capita of US$70,200 I'm pretty sure America could afford European-style healthcare and vacations, if that was a priority for their society. They have instead decided they like large houses on large plots of land, very cheap gas, and the highest rate of private swimming pool ownership in the world.
  - adra 3y ago
    Those numbers only make sense if the Gini coefficient of both comparison targets are roughly equal. Since the US has a much higher coefficient, it means that way more wealth is concentrated into the hands of the few. If the US can 'force' those people to pay enough to make up for their massive over representation in wealth and net worth, I don't see you getting the wonderful gifts of socialization any time soon.
    - michaelt 3y ago
      I think you and I are actually in agreement. I agree that Americans don't consider it a priority for their society to close the gap between rich and poor with things like free healthcare and free college education. However, I don't think that's because they're oppressed by the tyrannous yoke of capitalism. That wealth inequality allows quite a lot of people to enjoy luxuries; they've got 1 swimming pool for every 30 people, that's a lot of people with private swimming pools! Many Americans feel their high GDP per capita shows their low-tax approach is good for productivity, and that those swimming pools are proof that hard work gets rewarded in the land of the free and the home of the brave. My point is, viewed at a national level, America isn't suffering from the burdensome cost of maintaining their large and expensive military, as gessha seemed to think. They're actually one of the richest countries in the world.

hef19898 3y ago

A vassal? This is getting better and better... Sonall NATO memebers are subservient vassal states of the US, Japan is what? An occupied territory? Just as a heads up: Trump ain't President at the moment, and when he was, the US was weak they ever were...

simonh 3y ago

All true, but I think it's also broader than that. Europe is massively dependent on the US guaranteeing freedom of navigation globally. They're the only power capable of patrolling and defending every major sea lane simultaneously. The Houthi attacks in the Red Sea are affecting everybody. It's good to see the UK and now India get involved, but without the US the Houthis would more or less have free reign. Germany, Japan, even China plus many others are just as affected by it but what are they doing? What could they do?

actionfromafar 3y ago
It remains to be seen what even the US can do in the Red Sea. Will playing whack-a-mole with Houthis help, as long as their backer Iran is left alone? (Not saying attacking Iran is a good idea, mind you! These things are complicated.) The Red Sea will have to be pretty calm for a long time before shipments are routed there again. The Houthis need to strike only very occasionally to deny shipping.

gessha 3y ago

EU spending less on war means they can spend more on social services and public investments. Vacations, higher salaries, healthcare, etc. In a better world the US would do that too. But they don’t because they need to protect trade (and democracy). That’s why US defense spending is larger than most EU country GDPs. To balance that, healthcare here sucks, my car get roughed up by the potholes, bridges cost an arm and a leg, no vacation for workers, minimum wage is not enough pay to feed a family/upskill, etc.

actionfromafar 3y ago
There's a lot of truth to that, but something more is going on when the US spends comparably what the EU spends on healthcare but gets much worse outcomes.
michaelt 3y ago
Google tells me France has a GDP per capita of US$43,600 and the US a GDP per capita of US$70,200 I'm pretty sure America could afford European-style healthcare and vacations, if that was a priority for their society. They have instead decided they like large houses on large plots of land, very cheap gas, and the highest rate of private swimming pool ownership in the world.
- adra 3y ago
  Those numbers only make sense if the Gini coefficient of both comparison targets are roughly equal. Since the US has a much higher coefficient, it means that way more wealth is concentrated into the hands of the few. If the US can 'force' those people to pay enough to make up for their massive over representation in wealth and net worth, I don't see you getting the wonderful gifts of socialization any time soon.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    I think you and I are actually in agreement. I agree that Americans don't consider it a priority for their society to close the gap between rich and poor with things like free healthcare and free college education. However, I don't think that's because they're oppressed by the tyrannous yoke of capitalism. That wealth inequality allows quite a lot of people to enjoy luxuries; they've got 1 swimming pool for every 30 people, that's a lot of people with private swimming pools! Many Americans feel their high GDP per capita shows their low-tax approach is good for productivity, and that those swimming pools are proof that hard work gets rewarded in the land of the free and the home of the brave. My point is, viewed at a national level, America isn't suffering from the burdensome cost of maintaining their large and expensive military, as gessha seemed to think. They're actually one of the richest countries in the world.