4 ms·

Agreed - the main reason I switched to KDE from Gnome was so I could have a vertical taskbar.

by refset 3y ago

tsimionescu 3y ago
Heh, in the meantime modern Gnome doesn't have a Taskbar at all, because it "is not ok to distract users with a list of other things they could be doing when they have already selected one task to look at"...
- Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
  Is that a quote? I couldn't find the source if so. Hard to tell if it's a joke based on other GNOME statements.
  - NekkoDroid 3y ago
    I don't know either if it's a joke. The way I always thought of it is that the taskbar generally just can at best have a limited set of applications listed and takes up precious vertical monitor space, so its mostly limited to the overview/activities since that is the "I want to change apps" mode of the desktop and is just 1 click away (either super or top-left on the desktop). Then again I am one of the (probably) few people that would probably even do away with the top bar currently still in GNOME and not have anything other than the app visible by default. I use to be annoyed at the behavior as well when I started using GNOME, but at some point I actually started preferring it and now barely use the taskbar on Windows.
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    I remembered it as a version of what some Gnome designer claimed, but I tried searching for some statement on the topic and I couldn't find any explicitly mentioning it.
- omegabravo 3y ago
  it suits my workflow since all windows are full screen on all the monitors. I either use alt+tab or super key to get the exploded view. it won't suit all workflows of course
  - ako 3y ago
    That not only depends on preference, but also on hardware. When only using laptop display, most of my windows are full screen. However, when using a 32 inch 4K display, I prefer my windows smaller, often having multiple windows side by side, sometimes tiled.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  There are merits to the GNOME design philosophy. My Sway workflow and customizations are actually inspired quite a bit by GNOME. I don't use any taskbar or system tray. I don't even have a clock; I open a terminal and check the date command if I want to know the time. I make heavy use of workspaces rather than "minimizing" (Sway calls this the scratchpad or something like that, which I only use if I want to "background" graphical applications). I have absolutely no flashy styling or animations; I simply use nord where I can. It's not for everyone. It would be next to impossible for someone to sit at my computer and be productive, because I have accumulated my configuration over years, with no real thought into making things that I configured discoverable (I know it's there because I put it there). But it works really well for me. I find the ability setup a workspace how I want for one task, and then switching workspaces to context switch to be very nice.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I do something very similar in KDE with a whole bunch of virtual desktops. Though I do use a taskbar because I like the overview of it but I don't actually use it to switch tasks :) I always thought Gnome was not very useful for this because workspaces are created on the fly whereas I want to have them spatially oriented in a fixed grid that persists on every boot with the right application tiles in them. And I have hotkeys mapped to each one directly on the numpad (without key combos, I hate those). So my numpad is not a numpad at all but a workspace switcher :P The problem with the gnome design philosophy is that it only works for you if you agree with them on everything. If you're pretty opinionated yourself (as I am and it sounds like you are too), opinionated software only works well if you have the exact same opinions as its creators. With something as complex as a DE this will run into many mismatches quickly. This is why configurable software is so great if you're not willing to compromise on how you want things.
    - the_why_of_y 3y ago
      Current versions of Gnome allow setting a fixed number of workspaces in Settings, Multitasking. To configure hotkeys, you have to set some dconf entries manually, with dconf-editor or gsettings from a terminal: > gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings switch-to-workspace-1 "[\"<Super>F1\"]"
- addicted 3y ago
  I don’t want to “but, actually” this, but actually… Gnome does what it does because Gnome is not intended to be the final form of a DE that the user uses. Gnome is intended to be a DE that distros can make their own by adding their own opinionated choices, extensions and modifications on top. So while you complain about the lack of a vertical taskbar, in actual practice, outside of maybe Fedora users (which is essentially a distro largely designed to be used as a test bed), nearly every other Gnome user does have some form of taskbar because their distro included it, or they did a 1-click install from the Extensions app.
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    I don't agree. Reading Gnome designers' blogs makes it pretty clear that they strongly believe in these decisions as the best UX. Looking around Gnome reddit there's also plenty of people who like this minimalism and think it's actually superior [2]. That's not to say that the designers are not supportive of the existence of extensions. They clearly do, that's why they make a nice Extensions app in the first place. But they never say "yeah, we made it as barebones as possible to make it easy for extensions". They explain why it's better for users not to have a minimize button on windows [1], or why they've removed the systray to avoid confusion and so on [0]. [0] https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2017/08/31/status-icons-and-gnome/ https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2017/08/31/status-icons-and-gno... [1] https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/ https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-but... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/11bhxa7/comment/j9ypt9s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/11bhxa7/com...

Agreed - the main reason I switched to KDE from Gnome was so I could have a vertical taskbar.

by refset 3y ago

Agreed - the main reason I switched to KDE from Gnome was so I could have a vertical taskbar.

Heh, in the meantime modern Gnome doesn't have a Taskbar at all, because it "is not ok to distract users with a list of other things they could be doing when they have already selected one task to look at"...

Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
Is that a quote? I couldn't find the source if so. Hard to tell if it's a joke based on other GNOME statements.
- NekkoDroid 3y ago
  I don't know either if it's a joke. The way I always thought of it is that the taskbar generally just can at best have a limited set of applications listed and takes up precious vertical monitor space, so its mostly limited to the overview/activities since that is the "I want to change apps" mode of the desktop and is just 1 click away (either super or top-left on the desktop). Then again I am one of the (probably) few people that would probably even do away with the top bar currently still in GNOME and not have anything other than the app visible by default. I use to be annoyed at the behavior as well when I started using GNOME, but at some point I actually started preferring it and now barely use the taskbar on Windows.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  I remembered it as a version of what some Gnome designer claimed, but I tried searching for some statement on the topic and I couldn't find any explicitly mentioning it.
omegabravo 3y ago
it suits my workflow since all windows are full screen on all the monitors. I either use alt+tab or super key to get the exploded view. it won't suit all workflows of course
- ako 3y ago
  That not only depends on preference, but also on hardware. When only using laptop display, most of my windows are full screen. However, when using a 32 inch 4K display, I prefer my windows smaller, often having multiple windows side by side, sometimes tiled.
Zambyte 3y ago
There are merits to the GNOME design philosophy. My Sway workflow and customizations are actually inspired quite a bit by GNOME. I don't use any taskbar or system tray. I don't even have a clock; I open a terminal and check the date command if I want to know the time. I make heavy use of workspaces rather than "minimizing" (Sway calls this the scratchpad or something like that, which I only use if I want to "background" graphical applications). I have absolutely no flashy styling or animations; I simply use nord where I can. It's not for everyone. It would be next to impossible for someone to sit at my computer and be productive, because I have accumulated my configuration over years, with no real thought into making things that I configured discoverable (I know it's there because I put it there). But it works really well for me. I find the ability setup a workspace how I want for one task, and then switching workspaces to context switch to be very nice.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  I do something very similar in KDE with a whole bunch of virtual desktops. Though I do use a taskbar because I like the overview of it but I don't actually use it to switch tasks :) I always thought Gnome was not very useful for this because workspaces are created on the fly whereas I want to have them spatially oriented in a fixed grid that persists on every boot with the right application tiles in them. And I have hotkeys mapped to each one directly on the numpad (without key combos, I hate those). So my numpad is not a numpad at all but a workspace switcher :P The problem with the gnome design philosophy is that it only works for you if you agree with them on everything. If you're pretty opinionated yourself (as I am and it sounds like you are too), opinionated software only works well if you have the exact same opinions as its creators. With something as complex as a DE this will run into many mismatches quickly. This is why configurable software is so great if you're not willing to compromise on how you want things.
  - the_why_of_y 3y ago
    Current versions of Gnome allow setting a fixed number of workspaces in Settings, Multitasking. To configure hotkeys, you have to set some dconf entries manually, with dconf-editor or gsettings from a terminal: > gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings switch-to-workspace-1 "[\"<Super>F1\"]"
addicted 3y ago
I don’t want to “but, actually” this, but actually… Gnome does what it does because Gnome is not intended to be the final form of a DE that the user uses. Gnome is intended to be a DE that distros can make their own by adding their own opinionated choices, extensions and modifications on top. So while you complain about the lack of a vertical taskbar, in actual practice, outside of maybe Fedora users (which is essentially a distro largely designed to be used as a test bed), nearly every other Gnome user does have some form of taskbar because their distro included it, or they did a 1-click install from the Extensions app.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  I don't agree. Reading Gnome designers' blogs makes it pretty clear that they strongly believe in these decisions as the best UX. Looking around Gnome reddit there's also plenty of people who like this minimalism and think it's actually superior [2]. That's not to say that the designers are not supportive of the existence of extensions. They clearly do, that's why they make a nice Extensions app in the first place. But they never say "yeah, we made it as barebones as possible to make it easy for extensions". They explain why it's better for users not to have a minimize button on windows [1], or why they've removed the systray to avoid confusion and so on [0]. [0] https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2017/08/31/status-icons-and-gnome/ https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2017/08/31/status-icons-and-gno... [1] https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/ https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-but... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/11bhxa7/comment/j9ypt9s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxquestions/comments/11bhxa7/com...