5 ms·

Interesting. For me, Linux would be unusuable if I had to use GNOME. What do you like specifically about GNOME compared to Plasma or Windows?

jklinger410 3y ago
> Linux would be unusuable if I had to use GNOME. This type of hyperbole is what feeds the DE wars. GNOME is very usable, and if it's not, you don't know how to use a computer at all.
- anneessens 3y ago
  Well it's not a hyperbole, my productivity would suffer immensely if I had to use GNOME. And since GNOME doesn't offer much customisation, I couldn't make it work better for me, which is why I use Plasma. That doesn't mean I hate GNOME or something and I'm glad it exists for the people who do like its approach.
  - criddell 3y ago
    In what ways does Gnome hamper your productivity? Are you really using the DE a lot? Most of my day is spent in applications. I launch an application and that's where I'm spending my time. I'm not using the desktop environment all that much. I really don't find much difference working in Windows, macOS, KDE or Gnome or even iPadOS as far as interacting with the graphical environment goes.
    - anneessens 3y ago
      Yes, absolutely. Perhaps not directly with the DE itself, but the DE affects how I work. On Plasma, I have it set up so I have all title bars hidden and I use custom keybinds to close, minimize and maximize windows, which saves screen space and reduces clutter. On GNOME you cannot minimize windows at all if I remember correctly. I have virtual desktops disabled and only use one desktop to manage all of my windows, while GNOME fundamentally works around using multiple virtual desktops as far as I know. GNOME doesn't have a system tray, which I find essential. For example, I can see just by looking if Discord has an unread notification. Or I can close OBS to the system tray without quiting the application, which reduces visual clutter. I know you can add this with an extension, but I'm just referring to vanilla GNOME. I often use KRunner to temporarily write something while still seeing the contents of my screen, while GNOME's equivalent is full screen I believe. I'm sure there are many other ways, but these are the ones I can quickly think of.
      - ColonelPhantom 3y ago
        > On GNOME you cannot minimize windows at all if I remember correctly. This is incorrect. You can minimize windows on Gnome, but the button to do it is hidden by default. It can be re-enabled in Gnome Tweaks, and there is also a keyboard shortcut (Super+H) for minimizing. Gnome is however indeed fairly workspace-centric. As for customization, out of the box Gnome is quite rigid, but its extension ecosystem far surpasses that of KDE. You can use extensions on Gnome to for example get a dock or system tray back.
        anneessens 3y ago
        Oh, I didn't know that shortcut for minimizing. Is there a reason the button is hidden by default? I never really understood how to efficiently use virtual desktops or what their benefits are compared to one desktop. Would you mind to explain? Well, I would imagine that is because you generally only need extensions on KDE for niche things, while GNOME needs extensions for more 'basic' things. Obviously you don't need an extension for a system tray if one already exists by default.
        toyg 3y ago
        > Is there a reason the button is hidden by default? Because GNOME developers mindlessly pursue "minimalism" with religious zealotry, finding an outlet for their frustration of not being good enough to work for the Church of Apple.
        int_19h 3y ago
        > You can use extensions on Gnome to for example get a dock or system tray back. As I recall, those are exactly the kinds of extensions that get broken by Gnome updates on a regular basis.
      - criddell 3y ago
        I think I see one difference - I'm not trying to use each environment the same. My iPad wants everything to be full screen, so that's how I use it (although I have been playing with Stage Manager). Windows has good support for tiling now, so I use that. On Gnome I lean into the workspace stuff. KDE I don't know as well, so I use the mouse for just about everything. I enjoy learning the ins and outs of the different environments and frankly I wish the differences ran even deeper. I often think about how fun it would be if Commodore Amiga, Atari ST, BeOS, SGI IRIX, OS/2, Sun CDE, and all the other systems were still being developed. But then the Electron / web app people would probably still try to pave over everything cool and unique on each system to run one mediocre app everywhere.
  - jklinger410 3y ago
    It is hyperbole, because you could use it. You would have to be incompetent to not be able to use it. Having lower productivity does not mean something is "unusable." It is, in fact, still usable. You just don't like it. Maybe learn what unusable and hyperbole mean.
    - anneessens 3y ago
      It's unusable enough for me that I would rather switch back to Windows than keep using GNOME. And I really don't like Windows. What does this discussion gain from you being pedantic? Everyone with common sense knew what I meant.
      - jklinger410 3y ago
        Because > This type of hyperbole is what feeds the DE wars. You not liking something is not the same as it not being "usable." You simply don't like it as much. Your comment would be a lot less interesting if it were written without hyperbole. It would simply be "I don't like GNOME as much as KDE." And no one would really care about that, it wouldn't be a notable comment.
        anneessens 3y ago
        You're the only one who takes this 'war' seriously. The rest of us here are adults who can appreciate all desktop environments, even if we don't personally like to use them. Go annoy someone else.
        jklinger410 3y ago
        My entire point is that both desktops can be appreciated for what they are. I can use KDE or GNOME, I just prefer GNOME. I would never call KDE unusable, because it works just fine for those who like it. People who go around saying they "can't use GNOME" because it's "not customizable" without ever even trying would be the ones that are not appreciating all desktops, like an adult.
brink 3y ago
I use Gnome (and Sway, depending on which computer I'm on). I use Gnome because it works great with wayland, and I just need to get work done, and Gnome does a pretty alright job of staying out of the way. KDE's integration with Wayland feels too clunky for me at this point. Plus I get rendering artifacts on the edge of the screen when I use plasma with screen scaling.
- anneessens 3y ago
  I believe improving Wayland support was one of the major goals of Plasma 6. So if it was just the Wayland integration putting you off, then maybe consider trying Plasma again soon.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    Plasma 5s Wayland support has been pretty good since I started using it. I started using it back in December. Gnome just does way too many things I don't want it to do and that can't be disabled.
    - anneessens 3y ago
      I experience some random visual bugs occasionally with Wayland, but yes generally it's decent. But I could understand if someone would want a more stable experience. Yes, I don't like that about GNOME either.
Octabrain 3y ago
I like its simplicity and the straight forward workflow it provides. Years ago, I used to use KDE and enjoyed it but these days, I want something that is functional while being vanilla and standard as possible and personally, that's what GNOME gives me.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  It's so straightforward you can't even switch to another window without pressing a separate button first! The Gnome designers have apparently discovered that taskbars are attention vampires and a detriment to users.
  - Octabrain 3y ago
    I don't get your point. I just use two ways: 1. With mouse -> Up left corner (a.k.a hot corner) -> Click on the window I want. 2. With keyboard -> Alt + Tab -> Select the window I want. I find that quite straight forward. Again, it's a personal thing.
  - addicted 3y ago
    No one installs Gnome on their computers. You install a distro that includes Gnome. Did your distro choose not to package a taskbar extension? That’s a good hint your distro is not intended to be an end user distro. 99% of Gnome users have a taskbar.
- anneessens 3y ago
  Fair enough. I guess I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't be interested to make the workflow fit better for yourself on a device you spend hours per day using.
  - Octabrain 3y ago
    It's just a personal thing. I try to stick to using tools that provide me the best defaults + being open source. I don't want to spend time customizing my desktop or getting overwhelmed by the amount of different choices I have available. Don't get me wrong, KDE is a beautiful and great project, it's just that, a very personal thing.
l72 3y ago
Isn't it great, that unlike Windows or Mac, we have a choice! We don't have to try to create something for the lowest common denominator of user, and we can find something that works really well for us, individually.
- anneessens 3y ago
  I absolutely agree with that. I was just curious to know what he doesn't like.

jklinger410 3y ago

> Linux would be unusuable if I had to use GNOME. This type of hyperbole is what feeds the DE wars. GNOME is very usable, and if it's not, you don't know how to use a computer at all.

anneessens 3y ago
Well it's not a hyperbole, my productivity would suffer immensely if I had to use GNOME. And since GNOME doesn't offer much customisation, I couldn't make it work better for me, which is why I use Plasma. That doesn't mean I hate GNOME or something and I'm glad it exists for the people who do like its approach.
- criddell 3y ago
  In what ways does Gnome hamper your productivity? Are you really using the DE a lot? Most of my day is spent in applications. I launch an application and that's where I'm spending my time. I'm not using the desktop environment all that much. I really don't find much difference working in Windows, macOS, KDE or Gnome or even iPadOS as far as interacting with the graphical environment goes.
  - anneessens 3y ago
    Yes, absolutely. Perhaps not directly with the DE itself, but the DE affects how I work. On Plasma, I have it set up so I have all title bars hidden and I use custom keybinds to close, minimize and maximize windows, which saves screen space and reduces clutter. On GNOME you cannot minimize windows at all if I remember correctly. I have virtual desktops disabled and only use one desktop to manage all of my windows, while GNOME fundamentally works around using multiple virtual desktops as far as I know. GNOME doesn't have a system tray, which I find essential. For example, I can see just by looking if Discord has an unread notification. Or I can close OBS to the system tray without quiting the application, which reduces visual clutter. I know you can add this with an extension, but I'm just referring to vanilla GNOME. I often use KRunner to temporarily write something while still seeing the contents of my screen, while GNOME's equivalent is full screen I believe. I'm sure there are many other ways, but these are the ones I can quickly think of.
    - ColonelPhantom 3y ago
      > On GNOME you cannot minimize windows at all if I remember correctly. This is incorrect. You can minimize windows on Gnome, but the button to do it is hidden by default. It can be re-enabled in Gnome Tweaks, and there is also a keyboard shortcut (Super+H) for minimizing. Gnome is however indeed fairly workspace-centric. As for customization, out of the box Gnome is quite rigid, but its extension ecosystem far surpasses that of KDE. You can use extensions on Gnome to for example get a dock or system tray back.
      - anneessens 3y ago
        Oh, I didn't know that shortcut for minimizing. Is there a reason the button is hidden by default? I never really understood how to efficiently use virtual desktops or what their benefits are compared to one desktop. Would you mind to explain? Well, I would imagine that is because you generally only need extensions on KDE for niche things, while GNOME needs extensions for more 'basic' things. Obviously you don't need an extension for a system tray if one already exists by default.
        toyg 3y ago
        > Is there a reason the button is hidden by default? Because GNOME developers mindlessly pursue "minimalism" with religious zealotry, finding an outlet for their frustration of not being good enough to work for the Church of Apple.
      - int_19h 3y ago
        > You can use extensions on Gnome to for example get a dock or system tray back. As I recall, those are exactly the kinds of extensions that get broken by Gnome updates on a regular basis.
    - criddell 3y ago
      I think I see one difference - I'm not trying to use each environment the same. My iPad wants everything to be full screen, so that's how I use it (although I have been playing with Stage Manager). Windows has good support for tiling now, so I use that. On Gnome I lean into the workspace stuff. KDE I don't know as well, so I use the mouse for just about everything. I enjoy learning the ins and outs of the different environments and frankly I wish the differences ran even deeper. I often think about how fun it would be if Commodore Amiga, Atari ST, BeOS, SGI IRIX, OS/2, Sun CDE, and all the other systems were still being developed. But then the Electron / web app people would probably still try to pave over everything cool and unique on each system to run one mediocre app everywhere.
- jklinger410 3y ago
  It is hyperbole, because you could use it. You would have to be incompetent to not be able to use it. Having lower productivity does not mean something is "unusable." It is, in fact, still usable. You just don't like it. Maybe learn what unusable and hyperbole mean.
  - anneessens 3y ago
    It's unusable enough for me that I would rather switch back to Windows than keep using GNOME. And I really don't like Windows. What does this discussion gain from you being pedantic? Everyone with common sense knew what I meant.
    - jklinger410 3y ago
      Because > This type of hyperbole is what feeds the DE wars. You not liking something is not the same as it not being "usable." You simply don't like it as much. Your comment would be a lot less interesting if it were written without hyperbole. It would simply be "I don't like GNOME as much as KDE." And no one would really care about that, it wouldn't be a notable comment.
      - anneessens 3y ago
        You're the only one who takes this 'war' seriously. The rest of us here are adults who can appreciate all desktop environments, even if we don't personally like to use them. Go annoy someone else.
        jklinger410 3y ago
        My entire point is that both desktops can be appreciated for what they are. I can use KDE or GNOME, I just prefer GNOME. I would never call KDE unusable, because it works just fine for those who like it. People who go around saying they "can't use GNOME" because it's "not customizable" without ever even trying would be the ones that are not appreciating all desktops, like an adult.

brink 3y ago

I use Gnome (and Sway, depending on which computer I'm on). I use Gnome because it works great with wayland, and I just need to get work done, and Gnome does a pretty alright job of staying out of the way. KDE's integration with Wayland feels too clunky for me at this point. Plus I get rendering artifacts on the edge of the screen when I use plasma with screen scaling.

anneessens 3y ago
I believe improving Wayland support was one of the major goals of Plasma 6. So if it was just the Wayland integration putting you off, then maybe consider trying Plasma again soon.
- cogman10 3y ago
  Plasma 5s Wayland support has been pretty good since I started using it. I started using it back in December. Gnome just does way too many things I don't want it to do and that can't be disabled.
  - anneessens 3y ago
    I experience some random visual bugs occasionally with Wayland, but yes generally it's decent. But I could understand if someone would want a more stable experience. Yes, I don't like that about GNOME either.

Octabrain 3y ago

I like its simplicity and the straight forward workflow it provides. Years ago, I used to use KDE and enjoyed it but these days, I want something that is functional while being vanilla and standard as possible and personally, that's what GNOME gives me.

tsimionescu 3y ago
It's so straightforward you can't even switch to another window without pressing a separate button first! The Gnome designers have apparently discovered that taskbars are attention vampires and a detriment to users.
- Octabrain 3y ago
  I don't get your point. I just use two ways: 1. With mouse -> Up left corner (a.k.a hot corner) -> Click on the window I want. 2. With keyboard -> Alt + Tab -> Select the window I want. I find that quite straight forward. Again, it's a personal thing.
- addicted 3y ago
  No one installs Gnome on their computers. You install a distro that includes Gnome. Did your distro choose not to package a taskbar extension? That’s a good hint your distro is not intended to be an end user distro. 99% of Gnome users have a taskbar.
anneessens 3y ago
Fair enough. I guess I have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't be interested to make the workflow fit better for yourself on a device you spend hours per day using.
- Octabrain 3y ago
  It's just a personal thing. I try to stick to using tools that provide me the best defaults + being open source. I don't want to spend time customizing my desktop or getting overwhelmed by the amount of different choices I have available. Don't get me wrong, KDE is a beautiful and great project, it's just that, a very personal thing.

l72 3y ago

Isn't it great, that unlike Windows or Mac, we have a choice! We don't have to try to create something for the lowest common denominator of user, and we can find something that works really well for us, individually.

anneessens 3y ago
I absolutely agree with that. I was just curious to know what he doesn't like.