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Good job KDE team - nice to see steady progress. I encourage anybody using KDE to occasionally file tickets at bugs.kde.org; Nate is a powerhouse and seems to

Good job KDE team - nice to see steady progress. I encourage anybody using KDE to occasionally file tickets at bugs.kde.org; Nate is a powerhouse and seems to review all inbound tickets, and anything critical will reliably get worked on within a reasonable period of time. They're also very open to ideas and feedback (that fit into their general UX guidelines.) I would love to see more distros switch to an opinionated KDE (and also to KDE by default). It's so malleable, and yet most distros just dump the basic default setup on users.

thriftwy 3y ago
KDE should probably invest in better defaults if these need tweaking. People don't usually dig in the settings menu unless something is bothering them. If there are great opt-in features they're going to stay off.
- Phlogi 3y ago
  just what they did with V6.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Most people I know that use KDE use it because it's so customisable. It's not the same crowd as Gnome. I don't think this is an impediment at all.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    I'm using KDE for 20 years already because it has great miscellaneous apps (though it's less important in 2024), slick integration between components and nice all-encompassing settings app. I do tweak a few things when I boot up a fresh install, but generally, I don't feel the need to do a deep customization, and am not aware of any missed opportunities.
    - binkHN 3y ago
      > I'm using KDE ... because it has great miscellaneous apps... KWrite and Dolphin are insane!
  - refset 3y ago
    Agreed - the main reason I switched to KDE from Gnome was so I could have a vertical taskbar.
    - tsimionescu 3y ago
      Heh, in the meantime modern Gnome doesn't have a Taskbar at all, because it "is not ok to distract users with a list of other things they could be doing when they have already selected one task to look at"...
      - Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
        Is that a quote? I couldn't find the source if so. Hard to tell if it's a joke based on other GNOME statements.
        NekkoDroid 3y ago
        I don't know either if it's a joke. The way I always thought of it is that the taskbar generally just can at best have a limited set of applications listed and takes up precious vertical monitor space, so its mostly limited to the overview/activities since that is the "I want to change apps" mode of the desktop and is just 1 click away (either super or top-left on the desktop). Then again I am one of the (probably) few people that would probably even do away with the top bar currently still in GNOME and not have anything other than the app visible by default. I use to be annoyed at the behavior as well when I started using GNOME, but at some point I actually started preferring it and now barely use the taskbar on Windows.
        tsimionescu 3y ago
        I remembered it as a version of what some Gnome designer claimed, but I tried searching for some statement on the topic and I couldn't find any explicitly mentioning it.
      - omegabravo 3y ago
        it suits my workflow since all windows are full screen on all the monitors. I either use alt+tab or super key to get the exploded view. it won't suit all workflows of course
  - DrewADesign 3y ago
    Most useful software that badly needs usability improvements has a group of people that just got used to it, and they will complain bitterly about any attempt to correct UI mistakes. If it’s customizable, they can configure it back after making improvements so it’s useful to everybody else, too. I hate the way gnome is set up, and welcome any updates to KDE with open arms.
    - account42 3y ago
      > If it’s customizable, they can configure it back after making improvements so it’s useful to everybody else, too. That is still creating needless work for existing users. Change the default for new users if you must but the update for existing users should be transparent unless they explicitly op into changes.
  - izacus 3y ago
    That sounds like survivorship bias though? Everyone else already left it and jumped ship to GNOME (including pretty much all of the distros). Are the current users the full target market or just leftovers?
    - pcdoodle 3y ago
      Isn't GNOME the one that doesn't have a "desktop"?
      - abenga 3y ago
        Yes? What's this question supposed to imply? No one should use Gnome?
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Not really, Most distros allow you install what you want. For example you don't need Kubuntu to install KDE. Just install kde-desktop.
  - jraph 3y ago
    I don't think I like KDE more because of its customizability but that's certainly welcome (as long as the default are good, which they also are)
  - ashes-of-sol 3y ago
    [dead]
- graemep 3y ago
  Most distros will change the defaults anyway., and, as others have said, a lot of KDE users use it for its customisability.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  > KDE should probably invest in better defaults if these need tweaking. We've done that a lot the last couple of years! We've changed many defaults to values that reflect better what the users actually use, based on reviewing what distros do, studies, and opt-in telemetry. A lot of this already happened in the back half of the 5.x era, but 6.0 includes additional changes in this regard. And you're not wrong, it does help a lot.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Great, but konsole tabs on the bottom by default? Why?
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I only very rarely use konsole tabs at all (I prefer multiple windows), but when I do, I appreciate that they're at the bottom of the screen. That tends to be where my attention is when I'm using konsole.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      I have them on the bottom for 20 years. The first thing I'll change on fresh system. Glad I won't need to do that anymore. I wonder if "new tab" button is always visible now too.
      - moffkalast 3y ago
        To each his own I suppose, as long as it's adjustable :) Is it a browser tabs vs. taskbar tabs ideology?
        kuschku 3y ago
        People like tabs right next to the area they look at most of the time. In browsers, that's always at the top. In terminals, depending on if you're a heavy user (and as result, the prompt is at the bottom) or a light user (and the prompt is at the top), you'll likely prefer tabs to be in the same area, too. I've actually got different settings for taskbar position and terminal tab position between my work ubuntu, personal ubuntu, and personal windows systems.
contrarian1234 3y ago
"I encourage anybody using KDE" Don't you effectively need to be running Neon, b/c you can only file tickets against the latest version? I have lots of small bugs with Ubuntu LTS (particularly with KDE Connect transfers) - but I assume nobody is interested in those. They're also basically impossible to replicate (ex: "Transfer failed for unknown reason" or "File arrived corrupted for unknown reason")
- topaz0 3y ago
  I don't know how much it affects priority, but they certainly accept bugs filed against older versions. Specifying versions is a big part of the form for a new bug, and they let you select versions going way back.
  - Filligree 3y ago
    I have a feeling they wouldn't accept bugs filed against NixOS, however, considering the huge number of patches applied. Which is a problem. NixOS remains by far the least aggravating OS I know, and... yeah. I wish there existed a desktop environment that played well with it.
    - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
      Just submit a bug. If they dont accept it submit a bug to NixOS about KDE not accepting NixOS KDE users bugs.
    - topaz0 3y ago
      I second my sibling comment -- just submit a bug. I think you are wrong that they would ignore it just because their context is somewhat different. Linux is full of differences like this. But also: Isn't one of the main benefits of NixOS that you can fairly painlessly get and try different versions of things? Just see if you can reproduce the bug in the same version of upstream. If so, file the bug with kde, if not, file the bug with NixOS because it's presumably caused by one of the patches.
moffkalast 3y ago
It's great to see, though my main gripe with KDE right now is Dolphin, the file manager. It tries to do everything but is just ever so slightly buggy in every way, it can't run as root, and asks to confirm saving twice every single time when editing a networked file. As much as it is less featured and ugly, Nautilus was less annoying to use.
- COGlory 3y ago
  Dolphin is legitimately my favorite KDE program. My experience is that it's a phenomenal productivity tool. Being able to quickly open or close a terminal. How customizable the ordering and appearance and columns are. Easy to manipulate tabs. I think I can count on one hand having a root file manager would be beneficial. Are you logging into a desktop as root?
  - binkHN 3y ago
    > Dolphin is legitimately my favorite KDE program. Happiness is clicking on a folder with lots of files, hitting forward slash, typing a search term, and instantly finding your file.
    - dizhn 3y ago
      I thought I didn't even have to hit / ? Perhaps that's in file picker mode.
      - dizhn 3y ago
        It is in file picker.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    > Are you logging into a desktop as root? Nah, but I would occasionally like to move things around outside of /home without doing it manually in the terminal. I'm not sure why that's such a problem.
Aerbil313 3y ago
I can't believe! I recently filed a ticket and the guy who reviewed was the KDE leader? If you are reading this, thank you Nate.
- account42 3y ago
  Well open source project leaders don't tend to be CEO likes that are far removed from the actual work. They are usually just regular contributors (well often the most active one) that have taken on the leadership role because someone has to.
account42 3y ago
> anything critical will reliably get worked on within a reasonable period of time. And "resolved" like [0] which is a 9 year old regression is marked "resolved upstream" becase KDE devs refuse to implement a workable solution FOR KDE like there used to be in 3.x and 4.x and instead require a perfect solution that will never happen as can be seen by the bug report's age. Not worth my time to report bugs if they will be treated like this. [0] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982
- raphinou 3y ago
  I'm sure you can find a similar example for any significant FOSS project, including GNOME, but that doesn't mean it is a general stance adopted by developers when a new bug report comes in.

thriftwy 3y ago

KDE should probably invest in better defaults if these need tweaking. People don't usually dig in the settings menu unless something is bothering them. If there are great opt-in features they're going to stay off.

Phlogi 3y ago
just what they did with V6.
wkat4242 3y ago
Most people I know that use KDE use it because it's so customisable. It's not the same crowd as Gnome. I don't think this is an impediment at all.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  I'm using KDE for 20 years already because it has great miscellaneous apps (though it's less important in 2024), slick integration between components and nice all-encompassing settings app. I do tweak a few things when I boot up a fresh install, but generally, I don't feel the need to do a deep customization, and am not aware of any missed opportunities.
  - binkHN 3y ago
    > I'm using KDE ... because it has great miscellaneous apps... KWrite and Dolphin are insane!
- refset 3y ago
  Agreed - the main reason I switched to KDE from Gnome was so I could have a vertical taskbar.
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    Heh, in the meantime modern Gnome doesn't have a Taskbar at all, because it "is not ok to distract users with a list of other things they could be doing when they have already selected one task to look at"...
    - Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
      Is that a quote? I couldn't find the source if so. Hard to tell if it's a joke based on other GNOME statements.
      - NekkoDroid 3y ago
        I don't know either if it's a joke. The way I always thought of it is that the taskbar generally just can at best have a limited set of applications listed and takes up precious vertical monitor space, so its mostly limited to the overview/activities since that is the "I want to change apps" mode of the desktop and is just 1 click away (either super or top-left on the desktop). Then again I am one of the (probably) few people that would probably even do away with the top bar currently still in GNOME and not have anything other than the app visible by default. I use to be annoyed at the behavior as well when I started using GNOME, but at some point I actually started preferring it and now barely use the taskbar on Windows.
      - tsimionescu 3y ago
        I remembered it as a version of what some Gnome designer claimed, but I tried searching for some statement on the topic and I couldn't find any explicitly mentioning it.
    - omegabravo 3y ago
      it suits my workflow since all windows are full screen on all the monitors. I either use alt+tab or super key to get the exploded view. it won't suit all workflows of course
- DrewADesign 3y ago
  Most useful software that badly needs usability improvements has a group of people that just got used to it, and they will complain bitterly about any attempt to correct UI mistakes. If it’s customizable, they can configure it back after making improvements so it’s useful to everybody else, too. I hate the way gnome is set up, and welcome any updates to KDE with open arms.
  - account42 3y ago
    > If it’s customizable, they can configure it back after making improvements so it’s useful to everybody else, too. That is still creating needless work for existing users. Change the default for new users if you must but the update for existing users should be transparent unless they explicitly op into changes.
- izacus 3y ago
  That sounds like survivorship bias though? Everyone else already left it and jumped ship to GNOME (including pretty much all of the distros). Are the current users the full target market or just leftovers?
  - pcdoodle 3y ago
    Isn't GNOME the one that doesn't have a "desktop"?
    - abenga 3y ago
      Yes? What's this question supposed to imply? No one should use Gnome?
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Not really, Most distros allow you install what you want. For example you don't need Kubuntu to install KDE. Just install kde-desktop.
- jraph 3y ago
  I don't think I like KDE more because of its customizability but that's certainly welcome (as long as the default are good, which they also are)
- ashes-of-sol 3y ago
  [dead]
graemep 3y ago
Most distros will change the defaults anyway., and, as others have said, a lot of KDE users use it for its customisability.
sho_hn 3y ago
> KDE should probably invest in better defaults if these need tweaking. We've done that a lot the last couple of years! We've changed many defaults to values that reflect better what the users actually use, based on reviewing what distros do, studies, and opt-in telemetry. A lot of this already happened in the back half of the 5.x era, but 6.0 includes additional changes in this regard. And you're not wrong, it does help a lot.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Great, but konsole tabs on the bottom by default? Why?
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I only very rarely use konsole tabs at all (I prefer multiple windows), but when I do, I appreciate that they're at the bottom of the screen. That tends to be where my attention is when I'm using konsole.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    I have them on the bottom for 20 years. The first thing I'll change on fresh system. Glad I won't need to do that anymore. I wonder if "new tab" button is always visible now too.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      To each his own I suppose, as long as it's adjustable :) Is it a browser tabs vs. taskbar tabs ideology?
      - kuschku 3y ago
        People like tabs right next to the area they look at most of the time. In browsers, that's always at the top. In terminals, depending on if you're a heavy user (and as result, the prompt is at the bottom) or a light user (and the prompt is at the top), you'll likely prefer tabs to be in the same area, too. I've actually got different settings for taskbar position and terminal tab position between my work ubuntu, personal ubuntu, and personal windows systems.

contrarian1234 3y ago

"I encourage anybody using KDE" Don't you effectively need to be running Neon, b/c you can only file tickets against the latest version? I have lots of small bugs with Ubuntu LTS (particularly with KDE Connect transfers) - but I assume nobody is interested in those. They're also basically impossible to replicate (ex: "Transfer failed for unknown reason" or "File arrived corrupted for unknown reason")

topaz0 3y ago
I don't know how much it affects priority, but they certainly accept bugs filed against older versions. Specifying versions is a big part of the form for a new bug, and they let you select versions going way back.
- Filligree 3y ago
  I have a feeling they wouldn't accept bugs filed against NixOS, however, considering the huge number of patches applied. Which is a problem. NixOS remains by far the least aggravating OS I know, and... yeah. I wish there existed a desktop environment that played well with it.
  - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
    Just submit a bug. If they dont accept it submit a bug to NixOS about KDE not accepting NixOS KDE users bugs.
  - topaz0 3y ago
    I second my sibling comment -- just submit a bug. I think you are wrong that they would ignore it just because their context is somewhat different. Linux is full of differences like this. But also: Isn't one of the main benefits of NixOS that you can fairly painlessly get and try different versions of things? Just see if you can reproduce the bug in the same version of upstream. If so, file the bug with kde, if not, file the bug with NixOS because it's presumably caused by one of the patches.

moffkalast 3y ago

It's great to see, though my main gripe with KDE right now is Dolphin, the file manager. It tries to do everything but is just ever so slightly buggy in every way, it can't run as root, and asks to confirm saving twice every single time when editing a networked file. As much as it is less featured and ugly, Nautilus was less annoying to use.

COGlory 3y ago
Dolphin is legitimately my favorite KDE program. My experience is that it's a phenomenal productivity tool. Being able to quickly open or close a terminal. How customizable the ordering and appearance and columns are. Easy to manipulate tabs. I think I can count on one hand having a root file manager would be beneficial. Are you logging into a desktop as root?
- binkHN 3y ago
  > Dolphin is legitimately my favorite KDE program. Happiness is clicking on a folder with lots of files, hitting forward slash, typing a search term, and instantly finding your file.
  - dizhn 3y ago
    I thought I didn't even have to hit / ? Perhaps that's in file picker mode.
    - dizhn 3y ago
      It is in file picker.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  > Are you logging into a desktop as root? Nah, but I would occasionally like to move things around outside of /home without doing it manually in the terminal. I'm not sure why that's such a problem.

Aerbil313 3y ago

I can't believe! I recently filed a ticket and the guy who reviewed was the KDE leader? If you are reading this, thank you Nate.

account42 3y ago
Well open source project leaders don't tend to be CEO likes that are far removed from the actual work. They are usually just regular contributors (well often the most active one) that have taken on the leadership role because someone has to.

account42 3y ago

> anything critical will reliably get worked on within a reasonable period of time. And "resolved" like [0] which is a 9 year old regression is marked "resolved upstream" becase KDE devs refuse to implement a workable solution FOR KDE like there used to be in 3.x and 4.x and instead require a perfect solution that will never happen as can be seen by the bug report's age. Not worth my time to report bugs if they will be treated like this. [0] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982

raphinou 3y ago
I'm sure you can find a similar example for any significant FOSS project, including GNOME, but that doesn't mean it is a general stance adopted by developers when a new bug report comes in.