4 ms·

Probably, the predominance of cars in our modern societies (and cars always getting bigger) is one of the factor that yielded to observations made in this artic

by abricq 3y ago

Probably, the predominance of cars in our modern societies (and cars always getting bigger) is one of the factor that yielded to observations made in this article. But in some places (for instance where I live, Lausanne Switzerland) it's becoming easier to escape this car culture. I don't have kids, but some colleagues do. One of them does not own a car and her 2 children (6 and 9 years old) do everything by bike : going to school, to the activities (they climb!), etc. They surely look much more agile and risky than other colleague's children. It's quite crazy to see these two kids on their bikes, and how much liberating it is for them to move by theirselves. Unlike most kids who just commute in their parents's car. Of course, I am aware this works only because there's a really good bike infrastructure. And people drive pretty well too, I guess.

Biganon 3y ago
Funny to see another Lausannois here, cheers
CalRobert 3y ago
I'm looking at moving to bloommerwede.nl, or maybe houte, in the Netherlands, so my kids can have this. I wish it were easier to find.
- ab71e5 3y ago
  You don't need to move to these specific places in the Netherlands, in pretty much any city/suburb or town over ~3000 or something people you will have everything you need within safe biking distance, including a train or bus station to get around further.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Well, I live in Hilversum now, and _for me_ it's nice, I can bike or use public transport for everything. For _my kids_ it's... OK, but there are too many busy roads with fast traffic that they would need to cross to get to the closest playground, their school, etc.. Also quite a few large SUV's and big trucks. My kids are 6 and 4 though. Hilversum is the nicest place I've ever lived for biking and walking, but it's still not as good as Houten, parts of Utrecht, etc.
lqet 3y ago
Family with a 4 your old in Germany here (rural suburbian village of a medium sized town), no car. Everyone always told us that we would buy one soon, because with a child you require one. So far, that wasn't true at all. We do everything by bike or public transport, and that wasn't a conscious or political decision. We just transitioned from car-less students to car-less parents, waiting for the time when a car would become necessary. My wife doesn't even have a driving license, so at this point in our life, adding a car into the mix would just mean so much overhead (time, cost, administrative). We do have carsharing, though, and use it every 2 months or so (for trips to places you cannot go by bike / public transport, or large purchases).
- sandworm101 3y ago
  >> Germany here (rural suburbian village of a medium sized town) But I would bet that every service you might reasonably need is within a few kilometers of your home, and every conceivable service is likely within 100km. Many people do not live in such environments. I'm in a town of 16k people, but the nearest allergist 200+km away, the nearest railroad 400km away. (One of my team is away today because he has to take his kid to the allergist, an all-day trip by car.) And it was -30c this morning. Car "culture" isn't a fashion choice but a necessity for anyone not living in a warm suburban village. Yes, pickups do outnumber cars here. Most don't really need them daily, but offroad ability is an actual thing in winter in areas where the roads are not plowed ever 20 minutes, and in summer when forest fires evacuation is a real thing.
  - lqet 3y ago
    > But I would bet that every service you might reasonably need is within a few kilometers of your home, and every conceivable service is likely within 100km. That is correct. Kindergarten, doctors, train station and my work are all within 7 kilometers. My wife's work is 60 km away, but reachable via train in 40 min. My parents live 400 km away, but are also reachable via train in 3h. I am not advocating this lifestyle at all. I don't even think it is a lifestyle - as mentioned above, we didn't consciously decide to not own a car, it's just something that slowly developed. As my wife cannot drive, living in an area like you are describing would be a prison sentence for her, so we avoid that. This has also has its downsides: a house in a remote black forest village with a bus every 2 hours would cost 1/3 of what a house costs in our area.
iteria 3y ago
There's also less kids and that makes people drive faster. When I was a kid, there would be a dozen or more or us in a gang on bikes anywhere in the city and that was just us. There would be huge gangs of teens wandering. When I was a teen, I used to walk 3 miles to downtown with my friends for mo reason at all. My city hasn't changed except you don't see kids literally everywhere. Even in quiet neighborhoods with parks in the center, I don't see kids ambling about or playing. There's nothing dangerous around, but they still aren't there. I think this is just the decline of the birth rate. I think about my neighborhood. My kid should be spoiled for kids to play with, but couple only has one kid and the ages are spread from infant to nearly an adult, so it works out in the whole neighborhood theres only a handful of kids she can play with. I see bus stops with just 2 kids there. When I was a lid there were nearly a dozen at just my stop. I really think because there are less kids, it's just less safe for them because people don't honestly think they'll turn the corner and there well be half a dozen kids playing basketball in the street or something.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  >> a dozen or more or us in a gang on bikes anywhere in the city and that was just us >> don't see kids ambling about or playing. There's nothing dangerous around, but they still aren't there. Lol. Maybe it is "safer" now because gangs of teenagers no longer roam the streets. I think today that many older people are happy not to see teens hanging in public. The old always fear the young.

by abricq 3y ago

Biganon 3y ago

Funny to see another Lausannois here, cheers

CalRobert 3y ago

I'm looking at moving to bloommerwede.nl, or maybe houte, in the Netherlands, so my kids can have this. I wish it were easier to find.

ab71e5 3y ago
You don't need to move to these specific places in the Netherlands, in pretty much any city/suburb or town over ~3000 or something people you will have everything you need within safe biking distance, including a train or bus station to get around further.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Well, I live in Hilversum now, and _for me_ it's nice, I can bike or use public transport for everything. For _my kids_ it's... OK, but there are too many busy roads with fast traffic that they would need to cross to get to the closest playground, their school, etc.. Also quite a few large SUV's and big trucks. My kids are 6 and 4 though. Hilversum is the nicest place I've ever lived for biking and walking, but it's still not as good as Houten, parts of Utrecht, etc.

lqet 3y ago

Family with a 4 your old in Germany here (rural suburbian village of a medium sized town), no car. Everyone always told us that we would buy one soon, because with a child you require one. So far, that wasn't true at all. We do everything by bike or public transport, and that wasn't a conscious or political decision. We just transitioned from car-less students to car-less parents, waiting for the time when a car would become necessary. My wife doesn't even have a driving license, so at this point in our life, adding a car into the mix would just mean so much overhead (time, cost, administrative). We do have carsharing, though, and use it every 2 months or so (for trips to places you cannot go by bike / public transport, or large purchases).

sandworm101 3y ago
>> Germany here (rural suburbian village of a medium sized town) But I would bet that every service you might reasonably need is within a few kilometers of your home, and every conceivable service is likely within 100km. Many people do not live in such environments. I'm in a town of 16k people, but the nearest allergist 200+km away, the nearest railroad 400km away. (One of my team is away today because he has to take his kid to the allergist, an all-day trip by car.) And it was -30c this morning. Car "culture" isn't a fashion choice but a necessity for anyone not living in a warm suburban village. Yes, pickups do outnumber cars here. Most don't really need them daily, but offroad ability is an actual thing in winter in areas where the roads are not plowed ever 20 minutes, and in summer when forest fires evacuation is a real thing.
- lqet 3y ago
  > But I would bet that every service you might reasonably need is within a few kilometers of your home, and every conceivable service is likely within 100km. That is correct. Kindergarten, doctors, train station and my work are all within 7 kilometers. My wife's work is 60 km away, but reachable via train in 40 min. My parents live 400 km away, but are also reachable via train in 3h. I am not advocating this lifestyle at all. I don't even think it is a lifestyle - as mentioned above, we didn't consciously decide to not own a car, it's just something that slowly developed. As my wife cannot drive, living in an area like you are describing would be a prison sentence for her, so we avoid that. This has also has its downsides: a house in a remote black forest village with a bus every 2 hours would cost 1/3 of what a house costs in our area.

iteria 3y ago

There's also less kids and that makes people drive faster. When I was a kid, there would be a dozen or more or us in a gang on bikes anywhere in the city and that was just us. There would be huge gangs of teens wandering. When I was a teen, I used to walk 3 miles to downtown with my friends for mo reason at all. My city hasn't changed except you don't see kids literally everywhere. Even in quiet neighborhoods with parks in the center, I don't see kids ambling about or playing. There's nothing dangerous around, but they still aren't there. I think this is just the decline of the birth rate. I think about my neighborhood. My kid should be spoiled for kids to play with, but couple only has one kid and the ages are spread from infant to nearly an adult, so it works out in the whole neighborhood theres only a handful of kids she can play with. I see bus stops with just 2 kids there. When I was a lid there were nearly a dozen at just my stop. I really think because there are less kids, it's just less safe for them because people don't honestly think they'll turn the corner and there well be half a dozen kids playing basketball in the street or something.

sandworm101 3y ago
>> a dozen or more or us in a gang on bikes anywhere in the city and that was just us >> don't see kids ambling about or playing. There's nothing dangerous around, but they still aren't there. Lol. Maybe it is "safer" now because gangs of teenagers no longer roam the streets. I think today that many older people are happy not to see teens hanging in public. The old always fear the young.