5 ms·

I've noticed these too by randomly stumbling over similar repos. I usually don't run code from random repos, but now I have reached a point where I spin up a sa

I've noticed these too by randomly stumbling over similar repos. I usually don't run code from random repos, but now I have reached a point where I spin up a sandbox vm even when I trust the repo and the owners. If you are a dev today, you should probably have at least thee firmly separated environments for work, hobby and personal stuff.

Ringz 3y ago
> If you are a dev today, you should probably have at least thee firmly separated environments for work, hobby and personal stuff. The complexity of digital life takes on dimensions that make me doubt whether it can continue in the long term.
- sigmoid10 3y ago
  I think this is just another opportunity to create new services. I've seriously considered moving all my stuff (except gaming) into something like apache guacamole. I'm already used to remote dev-ing over ssh and once you can easily get your desktop anywhere without even needing a client, there's no real reason to run everything on the one system you happen to be sitting at. And if internet connectivity is still an issue in your country you could even run this setup locally. Maybe find a way to sync it with a remote system. I'm pretty sure this is the future anyways.
  - geraldhh 3y ago
    > there's no real reason to run everything on the one system you happen to be sitting at theoretically. in practice the added latency is a problem outside of casual use. update: clarification seems to be neccessary as i was talking about audio/video/gaming type workload, NOT office stuff
    - hhh 3y ago
      Can you give an example? I haven’t ran anything for work on my Macbook locally in a long time.
    - rcbdev 3y ago
      The latency issue is increasingly disappearing or at least becoming negligible in most population centers. For example, in my country almost every company uses Citrix (no affiliation) or similar workspace solutions, where the entire workstation is virtualized in a data center and you only access via a thin client. Entire nations of people work like this already. Cloud gaming will probably be the next frontier in this.
      - BlueTemplar 3y ago
        (Real time) cloud gaming only works with a very low latency internet connection, which requires wiring, which leaves out most of the non-city users (and still some city ones). Not to mention that it's ridiculously wasteful.
        google234123 3y ago
        What percent of consoles/gaming pcs are being used for gaming in average per hour? 15%?
        jack_pp 3y ago
        I'd say it's rather more wasteful for everyone to have expensive rigs to play games a couple of hours a day when we could share computing resources in the cloud
        63stack 3y ago
        I would love to have this, but this is very naive in the current economic climate. There is already a notion of trying to get rid of general computing devices from Apple, Google, and Microsoft. They would immediately use the opportunity to corner the market, lock down everything, and start extorting more money. There is no way I would give up my personal desktop.
        BlueTemplar 3y ago
        By definition, everyone doesn't have expensive rigs. But you're right, one shouldn't automatically assume that streaming is more wasteful than letting the resources sit idle... (one issue here is the assumptions about how fast computers are replaced for consumerist reasons ?) (And this would still leave the issue of the loss of ownership.)
  - KronisLV 3y ago
    I remember using a variety of VNC/RDP over local network for connecting to my laptop, so I could do development there and keep the codebase completely separate from my other machines, while still using my desktop keyboard, mouse and larger monitor. I'd just turn it on, connect to it and treat it as another window in the OS. That said, I think we either need proper OS level sandboxing, something like Qubes or just using multiple VMs or devices with remoting. It doesn't feel viable to have something like Discord or other communication software or things with account tokens, and executables like software or games running on the same install, whereas dual booting isn't viable for that either.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    > I think this is just another opportunity to create new services. So maybe cool for people with itches or startup aspirations, more hassle for everyone else.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  Does nobody use VMs anymore? I just spin up EC2 instances with Shortcuts on my Mac and destroy them when I’m done. Run a bash script to save my work to s3. Are people just doing everything locally or something?
- flyinghamster 3y ago
  Indeed. My parents (age 80+, father was an engineer and gadget freak) flatly refuse to use smartphones. My dad has a bit of trouble with the new big-screen TV but can figure things out. My mom just can't cope with the new remote and user interface. My dad's enough on the ball that he doesn't fall for scams, but I despair for people who aren't prepared for this (or who don't realize that email is untrustworthy). All this digital stuff falls naturally to me, but for the most part, people my age and older really don't cope well with the digital world. I'm an exception because I got my feet wet in the mini/timesharing environment, just as personal computing was beginning to take off, and didn't lose interest. Also, how well are we really teaching the next generation? I see both good and bad in that regard, with Pi, Arduino, etc. being the brightest spot, and locked-down ecosystems and pervasive surveillance the darkest. And, of course, there's the whole culture problem. The notion of "computer literacy" went from "knowing how to use a computer" to "knowing how to use Word and Excel" almost overnight. Are schools actually using things like the Pi and Arduino, or are we leaving it to parents to get such things into their hands?
  - Shared404 3y ago
    > Are schools actually using things like the Pi and Arduino, or are we leaving it to parents to get such things into their hands? Gen Z here checking in to say almost entirely the latter :/ . Some schools have an elective that would get things into the hands of kids, but nowhere near 100% and they generally have a pretty low coverage of students at the school.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Every year, qubes looks more reasonable:)
fsflover 3y ago
Sounds like a good reason to use Qubes OS, where everything runs in VMs by default (my daily driver).
- prmoustache 3y ago
  My experience with Qubes OS had been so so last time I've tried it. Have they managed to get rid of Xorg and the terrible screen tearing issue that should be a thing of the past in 2023? I remember there was a project named SpectrumOS that tried to do something similar to QubesOS but with nixos, crosVM and wayland. AFAIK the project stalled. I am using a sort of middle ground between traditionnal desktop and QubesOS. I run a number of VMs on my machine for different purpose and use waypipe to start apps as individual windows on the main desktop. I don't really have the copy/paste separation that QubesOS has, nor a separation between host and network VM but at least I can separate duties, filesystems and seamless windows showing on only one desktop. To distinguishes the browser and terminal windows I use different themes.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    Are you using an Nvidia GPU? https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5104 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5104 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/7591 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/7591 If not, try this: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/6880#issuecomment-1321045422 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/6880#issuecom... There is no tearing on my Librem laptops.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      Nope, but regarldess of drivers, xorg has never been pixel perfect and tearing do happens. You are just probably used to it but it is obvious once you have started using wayland how smoother your desktop becomes. It is the first time I hear about that Tearfree option and I am wondering. If it exists and it isn't the default behavior, it means there must be some annoying drawbacks right?
jbverschoor 3y ago
Check out container-shell [1] it is one of the use cases. Not a VM but a docker container. Chroot a directory in a container, and does some automatic house keeping etc [1] https://github.com/jrz/container-shell https://github.com/jrz/container-shell
- AlienRobot 3y ago
  A link to a github repo? How do I know it's not infected?
  - jbverschoor 3y ago
    It's a single bash script
simonjgreen 3y ago
> If you are a dev today, you should probably have at least thee firmly separated environments for work, hobby and personal stuff. I hate to call it out, but, isn’t that table stakes? Blending work and personal environments should be an obvious no. Are employers out there ok with this?
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  I used to work at Google where all computers were militantly segregated from non work stuff. Now I run a little non profit robotics org with one other person, and when I work from home I just use my personal desktop with no separation. It depends on where you work, how much people will care and whether there are resources to do anything about it.
- tsbinz 3y ago
  Big employers (at least the ones I know) aren't regarding work, I guess with smaller ones it maybe is, especially with BYOD? I think the issue probably isn't uncommon for freelancers/contractors too. Hobby and personal stuff I think a lot of people mix, I don't use the machine where I do bank/tax/etc stuff for hobby work, but I'm not sure that's common.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  OK Drone.
- fubar34 3y ago
  [dead]
lopkeny12ko 3y ago
I do this now today too, but not even for potentially malicious software. Some projects that are not inherently malicious are just written poorly or stupidly by design. Just the other day I ran a program that, before I even requested it to do anything, appended 3 lines to my ~/.bashrc. I didn't even notice until days later. I can't fathom why any developer thinks this is a good idea, and is exactly the kind of thing that makes me sandbox every foreign piece of code I run now.

Ringz 3y ago

> If you are a dev today, you should probably have at least thee firmly separated environments for work, hobby and personal stuff. The complexity of digital life takes on dimensions that make me doubt whether it can continue in the long term.

sigmoid10 3y ago
I think this is just another opportunity to create new services. I've seriously considered moving all my stuff (except gaming) into something like apache guacamole. I'm already used to remote dev-ing over ssh and once you can easily get your desktop anywhere without even needing a client, there's no real reason to run everything on the one system you happen to be sitting at. And if internet connectivity is still an issue in your country you could even run this setup locally. Maybe find a way to sync it with a remote system. I'm pretty sure this is the future anyways.
- geraldhh 3y ago
  > there's no real reason to run everything on the one system you happen to be sitting at theoretically. in practice the added latency is a problem outside of casual use. update: clarification seems to be neccessary as i was talking about audio/video/gaming type workload, NOT office stuff
  - hhh 3y ago
    Can you give an example? I haven’t ran anything for work on my Macbook locally in a long time.
  - rcbdev 3y ago
    The latency issue is increasingly disappearing or at least becoming negligible in most population centers. For example, in my country almost every company uses Citrix (no affiliation) or similar workspace solutions, where the entire workstation is virtualized in a data center and you only access via a thin client. Entire nations of people work like this already. Cloud gaming will probably be the next frontier in this.
    - BlueTemplar 3y ago
      (Real time) cloud gaming only works with a very low latency internet connection, which requires wiring, which leaves out most of the non-city users (and still some city ones). Not to mention that it's ridiculously wasteful.
      - google234123 3y ago
        What percent of consoles/gaming pcs are being used for gaming in average per hour? 15%?
      - jack_pp 3y ago
        I'd say it's rather more wasteful for everyone to have expensive rigs to play games a couple of hours a day when we could share computing resources in the cloud
        63stack 3y ago
        I would love to have this, but this is very naive in the current economic climate. There is already a notion of trying to get rid of general computing devices from Apple, Google, and Microsoft. They would immediately use the opportunity to corner the market, lock down everything, and start extorting more money. There is no way I would give up my personal desktop.
        BlueTemplar 3y ago
        By definition, everyone doesn't have expensive rigs. But you're right, one shouldn't automatically assume that streaming is more wasteful than letting the resources sit idle... (one issue here is the assumptions about how fast computers are replaced for consumerist reasons ?) (And this would still leave the issue of the loss of ownership.)
- KronisLV 3y ago
  I remember using a variety of VNC/RDP over local network for connecting to my laptop, so I could do development there and keep the codebase completely separate from my other machines, while still using my desktop keyboard, mouse and larger monitor. I'd just turn it on, connect to it and treat it as another window in the OS. That said, I think we either need proper OS level sandboxing, something like Qubes or just using multiple VMs or devices with remoting. It doesn't feel viable to have something like Discord or other communication software or things with account tokens, and executables like software or games running on the same install, whereas dual booting isn't viable for that either.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  > I think this is just another opportunity to create new services. So maybe cool for people with itches or startup aspirations, more hassle for everyone else.
overstay8930 3y ago
Does nobody use VMs anymore? I just spin up EC2 instances with Shortcuts on my Mac and destroy them when I’m done. Run a bash script to save my work to s3. Are people just doing everything locally or something?
flyinghamster 3y ago
Indeed. My parents (age 80+, father was an engineer and gadget freak) flatly refuse to use smartphones. My dad has a bit of trouble with the new big-screen TV but can figure things out. My mom just can't cope with the new remote and user interface. My dad's enough on the ball that he doesn't fall for scams, but I despair for people who aren't prepared for this (or who don't realize that email is untrustworthy). All this digital stuff falls naturally to me, but for the most part, people my age and older really don't cope well with the digital world. I'm an exception because I got my feet wet in the mini/timesharing environment, just as personal computing was beginning to take off, and didn't lose interest. Also, how well are we really teaching the next generation? I see both good and bad in that regard, with Pi, Arduino, etc. being the brightest spot, and locked-down ecosystems and pervasive surveillance the darkest. And, of course, there's the whole culture problem. The notion of "computer literacy" went from "knowing how to use a computer" to "knowing how to use Word and Excel" almost overnight. Are schools actually using things like the Pi and Arduino, or are we leaving it to parents to get such things into their hands?
- Shared404 3y ago
  > Are schools actually using things like the Pi and Arduino, or are we leaving it to parents to get such things into their hands? Gen Z here checking in to say almost entirely the latter :/ . Some schools have an elective that would get things into the hands of kids, but nowhere near 100% and they generally have a pretty low coverage of students at the school.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

Every year, qubes looks more reasonable:)

fsflover 3y ago

Sounds like a good reason to use Qubes OS, where everything runs in VMs by default (my daily driver).

prmoustache 3y ago
My experience with Qubes OS had been so so last time I've tried it. Have they managed to get rid of Xorg and the terrible screen tearing issue that should be a thing of the past in 2023? I remember there was a project named SpectrumOS that tried to do something similar to QubesOS but with nixos, crosVM and wayland. AFAIK the project stalled. I am using a sort of middle ground between traditionnal desktop and QubesOS. I run a number of VMs on my machine for different purpose and use waypipe to start apps as individual windows on the main desktop. I don't really have the copy/paste separation that QubesOS has, nor a separation between host and network VM but at least I can separate duties, filesystems and seamless windows showing on only one desktop. To distinguishes the browser and terminal windows I use different themes.
- fsflover 3y ago
  Are you using an Nvidia GPU? https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5104 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5104 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/7591 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/7591 If not, try this: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/6880#issuecomment-1321045422 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/6880#issuecom... There is no tearing on my Librem laptops.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Nope, but regarldess of drivers, xorg has never been pixel perfect and tearing do happens. You are just probably used to it but it is obvious once you have started using wayland how smoother your desktop becomes. It is the first time I hear about that Tearfree option and I am wondering. If it exists and it isn't the default behavior, it means there must be some annoying drawbacks right?

jbverschoor 3y ago

Check out container-shell [1] it is one of the use cases. Not a VM but a docker container. Chroot a directory in a container, and does some automatic house keeping etc [1] https://github.com/jrz/container-shell https://github.com/jrz/container-shell

AlienRobot 3y ago
A link to a github repo? How do I know it's not infected?
- jbverschoor 3y ago
  It's a single bash script

simonjgreen 3y ago

> If you are a dev today, you should probably have at least thee firmly separated environments for work, hobby and personal stuff. I hate to call it out, but, isn’t that table stakes? Blending work and personal environments should be an obvious no. Are employers out there ok with this?

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
I used to work at Google where all computers were militantly segregated from non work stuff. Now I run a little non profit robotics org with one other person, and when I work from home I just use my personal desktop with no separation. It depends on where you work, how much people will care and whether there are resources to do anything about it.
tsbinz 3y ago
Big employers (at least the ones I know) aren't regarding work, I guess with smaller ones it maybe is, especially with BYOD? I think the issue probably isn't uncommon for freelancers/contractors too. Hobby and personal stuff I think a lot of people mix, I don't use the machine where I do bank/tax/etc stuff for hobby work, but I'm not sure that's common.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
avgcorrection 3y ago
OK Drone.
fubar34 3y ago
[dead]

lopkeny12ko 3y ago

I do this now today too, but not even for potentially malicious software. Some projects that are not inherently malicious are just written poorly or stupidly by design. Just the other day I ran a program that, before I even requested it to do anything, appended 3 lines to my ~/.bashrc. I didn't even notice until days later. I can't fathom why any developer thinks this is a good idea, and is exactly the kind of thing that makes me sandbox every foreign piece of code I run now.