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> Heinz has taken a major step forward for sustainable packaging with the introduction of .... > The new cap's uniform composition of polypropylene (PP) simpl

> Heinz has taken a major step forward for sustainable packaging with the introduction of .... > The new cap's uniform composition of polypropylene (PP) simplifies recycling and ... > Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
obmelvin 3y ago
Until someone develops some sort of multi-spectral imaging that can reliably sort plastic based on it's composition there's little hope of recycling plastic. And then you still need different enzymes that can break down different compositions. It's sad, but realistically almost all plastic one disposes of needs to go in the trash can rather than recycling. You can't even rely on dedicated collection - https://abcnews.go.com/US/put-dozens-trackers-plastic-bags-recycling-trashed/story?id=99509422 https://abcnews.go.com/US/put-dozens-trackers-plastic-bags-r...
- asdff 3y ago
  I wonder how much plastic you'd need to pile up to start pressing out oil again at the bottom of the pile?
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    You mean ... by gravity? :-D
- robinwa 3y ago
  Conventional multispectral and hyperspectral can't keep up (and integrate well) into existing sorting lines. They induce a slow-down in conveyer belt speeds or you have to install splitters and buy multiple $100K cameras. (we're working to solve this problem though in the classic VC backed way - DM for more information!)
  - soultrees 3y ago
    Ah, another factorio fan I see.
    - robinwa 3y ago
      Got me there...
- 4gotunameagain 3y ago
  How does Germany recycle 60% of its plastic waste? There is obviously hope, just not enough incentive because it costs.
  - throw1231312 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation I can't even begin to imagine the discourse (and "experts" brought on-air at Fox News) that would take place if such legislation was proposed in the US.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - rocqua 3y ago
      A few states in the US as per your link, do have this system
      - throw1231312 3y ago
        Differences: * Single-use plastic bottle have a 25 cent deposit in Germany. This is 5x the 5cents in California. * Germany has enacted this legislation federally. * The legislation also requires that any retailer that sells plastic bottles (and glass bottles) must also facilitate the return of these bottles. I lived in California for a couple of years. I never saw a recycling machine at any Safeway, Walgreens or even Whole Foods while I was there. The closest thing to a "recycling machine" is the army of homeless people pushing trollies filled with bottles to take to a recycling center. I don't think that really counts.
        Symbiote 3y ago
        Michigan does have the sorting machines at supermarkets, just like in Germany. Michigan also has a 10¢ deposit.
    - Rebelgecko 3y ago
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Copenhagen recycles 70% of collected plastic, with the rest incinerated (used for heating homes, I think). Almost all plastic packaging is collected, including wrappers and trays. https://affald.kk.dk/affaldsfraktion/saadan-sorterer-du-plast https://affald.kk.dk/affaldsfraktion/saadan-sorterer-du-plas... (in Danish)
  - its-summertime 3y ago
    The last time I saw such numbers for impractical-to-recycle stuff like thins and foamed plastics, it ended up that the companies were just lying https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/redcycle-soft-plastics-recycling-update/103135156 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/redcycle-soft-plastic...
  - MyFirstSass 3y ago
    It's just not possible in any way to recycle 70%! Politician number fudging like this completely destroys the reputation of these initiatives. I'm still not convinced after looking at the actual numbers, that "recycling", putting stuff into 6 different bins etc, makes any difference at all in the grand scheme og things. Instead it's a big show hiding the fact that the problem is with over-consumption and non degradable materials being legal in the first place. Bottle and glass recycling for money seems to be semi working though but then we'll need QR codes on each item, better but still not eliminating the transport and seperation issues, and the fact that a lot of recycling is actually dumping stuff on poor people far away, and that industry is polluting way more than end consumers. As some people have pointed out it's actually the opposite, a smokescreen invented by the industry in the 90's to shift responsibility to the consumer so you do "some magic complex performance" at home and think now it's ok while everything just continues as is defacto, ie. worse than doing nothing. Instead we should ban or tax non degradable materials, and stick to the few working areas while regulating industry and materials even though it'l be rough until we're forced to create better materials.
    - mavhc 3y ago
      I have 3 bins (rubbish; garden waste; paper/soft plastic/glass), and take thin plastic and tetrapaks to the supermarket to be recycled. Takes me months to fill the rubbish bin
- lukan 3y ago
  I would argue burning it (and maybe capture the generated CO2) is the only recycling making any sense with the plastic garbage we have. And then stop using it for everything and start classifying/labeling the plastics where we neee them, so they can be sorted automatically later so then you can recycle them. Here in germany some sort of plastic recycling actually works, because there is a deposit fee on all plastic bottles - you bring them back to the supermarket to get it back - and then there is one source of the same plastic, that does get used for new products.
- sbierwagen 3y ago
  >Until someone develops some sort of multi-spectral imaging that can reliably sort plastic based on it's composition Funny you phrase it like that, because that's exactly what the STEINERT UniSort does. Plastic waste is finely shredded, dumped onto a conveyor belt, imaged, then passed over air puff sorters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3QHa9oQshw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3QHa9oQshw Is it worth it? Of course not. Far cheaper and easier just to burn it. But for EU nations that are really dedicated to recycling, it can be done.
  - dgellow 3y ago
    A lots of recycled plastic (I mean what people put in the plastic recycling bin) in the EU ends up being burned. They are sorted, cleaned up, then packaged into burnable units, because it’s the most cost effective way to reuse it I see 42% “energy recovery” from https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20181212STO21610/plastic-waste-and-recycling-in-the-eu-facts-and-figures https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20181212STO... from 2018. I found this from January 2024: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-new-boost-for-jobs-growth-and-investment/file-strategy-on-plastics-in-the-circular-economy https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-new-b... > In Europe, about 40 % of post-consumer plastic waste is incinerated with energy recovery, and the rest is either landfilled or recycled. About half of the plastic waste collected and recycled is treated in the European Union; the other half is exported, mainly to China.
squokko 3y ago
The recycling also doesn't achieve anything environmentally
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  The recycling reduces the amount of oil that goes into new plastic, which eventually will be incinerated and contribute to the climate crisis.
  - _cenw 3y ago
    the demand for non-virgin plastic is practically zero, while the cost is higher there are no economic incentives to use recycled plastic, and regulation mandating its use is minimal to non-existing. so most plastic that could be recycled isn't, and not because it isn't available/collected/sorted.
    - seszett 3y ago
      It seems though like many of the throwaway plastic containers I can find here like shampoo, water bottles, containers for sauces - NOT the Heinz ketchup bottle in my fridge though (which does say the body is recyclable but the cap is not) mention some percent of recycled plastic contents, from 90% to 20% in the items around me. So maybe it's more expensive but there seems to be some kind of incentive for these companies, even if it's just marketing.
      - _cenw 3y ago
        Food containers are tricky. Huel ready-to-drink seems to be 49%, because they need the inner coating to be virgin plastic.
    - Ma8ee 3y ago
      Yes, processes that are bad for the environment is cheaper. I find that a failing of the capitalist system, not the recycling process. If externalities were properly priced, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
yencabulator 3y ago
I fully expect that what's really happening here is that it's slightly cheaper to manufacture the caps as a single mold, rather than needing to combine two parts.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

obmelvin 3y ago

Until someone develops some sort of multi-spectral imaging that can reliably sort plastic based on it's composition there's little hope of recycling plastic. And then you still need different enzymes that can break down different compositions. It's sad, but realistically almost all plastic one disposes of needs to go in the trash can rather than recycling. You can't even rely on dedicated collection - https://abcnews.go.com/US/put-dozens-trackers-plastic-bags-recycling-trashed/story?id=99509422 https://abcnews.go.com/US/put-dozens-trackers-plastic-bags-r...

asdff 3y ago
I wonder how much plastic you'd need to pile up to start pressing out oil again at the bottom of the pile?
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  You mean ... by gravity? :-D
robinwa 3y ago
Conventional multispectral and hyperspectral can't keep up (and integrate well) into existing sorting lines. They induce a slow-down in conveyer belt speeds or you have to install splitters and buy multiple $100K cameras. (we're working to solve this problem though in the classic VC backed way - DM for more information!)
- soultrees 3y ago
  Ah, another factorio fan I see.
  - robinwa 3y ago
    Got me there...
4gotunameagain 3y ago
How does Germany recycle 60% of its plastic waste? There is obviously hope, just not enough incentive because it costs.
- throw1231312 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation I can't even begin to imagine the discourse (and "experts" brought on-air at Fox News) that would take place if such legislation was proposed in the US.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - rocqua 3y ago
    A few states in the US as per your link, do have this system
    - throw1231312 3y ago
      Differences: * Single-use plastic bottle have a 25 cent deposit in Germany. This is 5x the 5cents in California. * Germany has enacted this legislation federally. * The legislation also requires that any retailer that sells plastic bottles (and glass bottles) must also facilitate the return of these bottles. I lived in California for a couple of years. I never saw a recycling machine at any Safeway, Walgreens or even Whole Foods while I was there. The closest thing to a "recycling machine" is the army of homeless people pushing trollies filled with bottles to take to a recycling center. I don't think that really counts.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        Michigan does have the sorting machines at supermarkets, just like in Germany. Michigan also has a 10¢ deposit.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
Symbiote 3y ago
Copenhagen recycles 70% of collected plastic, with the rest incinerated (used for heating homes, I think). Almost all plastic packaging is collected, including wrappers and trays. https://affald.kk.dk/affaldsfraktion/saadan-sorterer-du-plast https://affald.kk.dk/affaldsfraktion/saadan-sorterer-du-plas... (in Danish)
- its-summertime 3y ago
  The last time I saw such numbers for impractical-to-recycle stuff like thins and foamed plastics, it ended up that the companies were just lying https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/redcycle-soft-plastics-recycling-update/103135156 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/redcycle-soft-plastic...
- MyFirstSass 3y ago
  It's just not possible in any way to recycle 70%! Politician number fudging like this completely destroys the reputation of these initiatives. I'm still not convinced after looking at the actual numbers, that "recycling", putting stuff into 6 different bins etc, makes any difference at all in the grand scheme og things. Instead it's a big show hiding the fact that the problem is with over-consumption and non degradable materials being legal in the first place. Bottle and glass recycling for money seems to be semi working though but then we'll need QR codes on each item, better but still not eliminating the transport and seperation issues, and the fact that a lot of recycling is actually dumping stuff on poor people far away, and that industry is polluting way more than end consumers. As some people have pointed out it's actually the opposite, a smokescreen invented by the industry in the 90's to shift responsibility to the consumer so you do "some magic complex performance" at home and think now it's ok while everything just continues as is defacto, ie. worse than doing nothing. Instead we should ban or tax non degradable materials, and stick to the few working areas while regulating industry and materials even though it'l be rough until we're forced to create better materials.
  - mavhc 3y ago
    I have 3 bins (rubbish; garden waste; paper/soft plastic/glass), and take thin plastic and tetrapaks to the supermarket to be recycled. Takes me months to fill the rubbish bin
lukan 3y ago
I would argue burning it (and maybe capture the generated CO2) is the only recycling making any sense with the plastic garbage we have. And then stop using it for everything and start classifying/labeling the plastics where we neee them, so they can be sorted automatically later so then you can recycle them. Here in germany some sort of plastic recycling actually works, because there is a deposit fee on all plastic bottles - you bring them back to the supermarket to get it back - and then there is one source of the same plastic, that does get used for new products.
sbierwagen 3y ago
>Until someone develops some sort of multi-spectral imaging that can reliably sort plastic based on it's composition Funny you phrase it like that, because that's exactly what the STEINERT UniSort does. Plastic waste is finely shredded, dumped onto a conveyor belt, imaged, then passed over air puff sorters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3QHa9oQshw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3QHa9oQshw Is it worth it? Of course not. Far cheaper and easier just to burn it. But for EU nations that are really dedicated to recycling, it can be done.
- dgellow 3y ago
  A lots of recycled plastic (I mean what people put in the plastic recycling bin) in the EU ends up being burned. They are sorted, cleaned up, then packaged into burnable units, because it’s the most cost effective way to reuse it I see 42% “energy recovery” from https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20181212STO21610/plastic-waste-and-recycling-in-the-eu-facts-and-figures https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20181212STO... from 2018. I found this from January 2024: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-new-boost-for-jobs-growth-and-investment/file-strategy-on-plastics-in-the-circular-economy https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-new-b... > In Europe, about 40 % of post-consumer plastic waste is incinerated with energy recovery, and the rest is either landfilled or recycled. About half of the plastic waste collected and recycled is treated in the European Union; the other half is exported, mainly to China.

squokko 3y ago

The recycling also doesn't achieve anything environmentally

Ma8ee 3y ago
The recycling reduces the amount of oil that goes into new plastic, which eventually will be incinerated and contribute to the climate crisis.
- _cenw 3y ago
  the demand for non-virgin plastic is practically zero, while the cost is higher there are no economic incentives to use recycled plastic, and regulation mandating its use is minimal to non-existing. so most plastic that could be recycled isn't, and not because it isn't available/collected/sorted.
  - seszett 3y ago
    It seems though like many of the throwaway plastic containers I can find here like shampoo, water bottles, containers for sauces - NOT the Heinz ketchup bottle in my fridge though (which does say the body is recyclable but the cap is not) mention some percent of recycled plastic contents, from 90% to 20% in the items around me. So maybe it's more expensive but there seems to be some kind of incentive for these companies, even if it's just marketing.
    - _cenw 3y ago
      Food containers are tricky. Huel ready-to-drink seems to be 49%, because they need the inner coating to be virgin plastic.
  - Ma8ee 3y ago
    Yes, processes that are bad for the environment is cheaper. I find that a failing of the capitalist system, not the recycling process. If externalities were properly priced, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

yencabulator 3y ago

I fully expect that what's really happening here is that it's slightly cheaper to manufacture the caps as a single mold, rather than needing to combine two parts.