4 ms·

While you have a good point, I wonder where all this erring on the side of caution even emerged or why it even emerged? Rearing young is pretty deep and ancient

by asdff 3y ago

While you have a good point, I wonder where all this erring on the side of caution even emerged or why it even emerged? Rearing young is pretty deep and ancient behavior in our species, yet when we think of examples of prior generations or suppose cases from the historical record, the trend always seemed to be free range parenting. Only within the last generation or two perhaps has childhood changed from one of exploration and freedom to one of restriction and days scheduled to the minute. Do the kids benefit from this unique way of being reared? Maybe, maybe not, we know mental health issues are on the rise among children. But, on the other hand, there is a profit to be made selling tools to monitor and restrict and activities and services to fill up an otherwise idle day, so there is some degree of incentive to keep this behavior around in our culture now that it has emerged for better or worse.

notanormalnerd 3y ago
In the last two generations we went from having 3 or more kids to having 1 kid. You just weren't able to supervise 5 kids with that level of caution like you are today. Also biologically your whole legacys survival lies on one kid.
huytersd 3y ago
People have fewer kids now. Only five or sex decades ago, losing a kid was relatively normalized. We’re just very risk averse now.
The_Colonel 3y ago
1. People had way less free time / resources to be able to watch over their kids 2. Children used to die all the time from various causes. I remember e.g. the case of Mozart who had just one surviving sibling and 5 who died early. I can't imagine what the parents had to go through - their first 3 children died early. You have to become desensitized to not go crazy. 2. Social status / value of children grew a lot.
m_fayer 3y ago
Having children has become way more exhausting: the need for advanced degrees and career climbing before reproduction means we do it later in life when we have less energy. The same factors plus mobility means grandparents are unavailable or worse, in need of care themselves. When both parents have full time jobs, the crunch is even worse. This all has 2 psychological effects: when parents feel like they’re just barely keeping this teetering lifestyle from falling over, they become very controlling. Tight control becomes the name of the game: it’s how everything’s done and anyway no one has the time or energy for the unexpected. Also, when the child represents a gargantuan investment, people become realty protective over their fragile prize. Like a luxury car that you can barely afford: all protective measures will be taken.
Intralexical 3y ago
These days a single killer or predator anywhere on the same continent can strike fear into the minds of millions of people, and do so at the speed of light (in fiber optic). Naturally you'd expect this to result in a much higher base level of fear, as compared to when your community was just people you knew and trusted personally.
- lapcat 3y ago
  This is it. TV and the internet have made society more fearful. I think America's Most Wanted was a turning point as far as child rearing was concerned. This show sowed and sold parental fear.
- asdff 3y ago
  I agree that this is probably the predominant factor. Even with my own life, many of my friends and coworkers think I am risking my life somehow when I ride the bus and train in to work. I'm like, have you actually ridden the thing? Sure there are a couple drug addicts and transients but the majority of the riders are just people trying to get across town and I've never once felt unsafe. But try and explain this and its like they refuse to value your actual lived experience in favor of the fear they have bit into hook line and sinker.
ip26 3y ago
Aside from all the good points made by others, it’s interesting that kids are not innately prepared to face many hazards in the modern world alone. Children can find out that rocks hurt through trial and error throwing pebbles at their friends, and they will figure it out. They are instinctively wary of things like snakes. But the threat posed by electrical sockets, stovetops, cars, bleach, power tools, and so forth are not forgiving to experimentation and not instinctive.
- asdff 3y ago
  See even that doesn't exactly explain the trend. My parents generation had all those risks and more (more deadly power tools and electrics) and the parenting was still absentee at that point. Sure they got into trouble with these things on occasion but a kid learns pretty quick a stove is hot and not to walk into a busy road. In japan they send young kids on errands directly into the modern world where they have all the same risks as they do here, because they understand the value of giving kids a bit of credit.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> Only within the last generation or two perhaps has childhood changed from one of exploration and freedom to one of restriction and days scheduled to the minute. Do the kids benefit from this unique way of being reared? Probably 90% of kids in the US live boxed in a relatively small area by roads that are 50ft+ (if not 80ft) wide with 40mph speed limits so that huge vehicles are actually traveling at 50mph driven by people looking at their phone. In addition, the density of kids is far less. A single street light only have a handful of kids, and probably not all the same age. A neighborhood might have a bunch, but not enough for the kids to mingle. Plus many send their kids to daycare or afterschool activities. I spend $20k per year per toddler just so they can interact with other toddlers.
- ip26 3y ago
  I hadn’t considered the double penalty of lower density housing PLUS smaller average family size. You’re right, the average “kid density” has probably plummeted.
- asdff 3y ago
  Suburbia seems very stifling as a kid. I hated it growing up until I was old enough to drive because like you said, there's nothing to do if no one your age is around. I have since moved to a denser area and I see there are a lot more kids hanging out in groups without needing supervision. Its like how they showed it to us on TV growing up, with gangs of kids of varying heights wheeling around the town on the bus or bikes or skateboards. I'm actually a little jealous of it.

by asdff 3y ago

notanormalnerd 3y ago

In the last two generations we went from having 3 or more kids to having 1 kid. You just weren't able to supervise 5 kids with that level of caution like you are today. Also biologically your whole legacys survival lies on one kid.

huytersd 3y ago

People have fewer kids now. Only five or sex decades ago, losing a kid was relatively normalized. We’re just very risk averse now.

The_Colonel 3y ago

1. People had way less free time / resources to be able to watch over their kids 2. Children used to die all the time from various causes. I remember e.g. the case of Mozart who had just one surviving sibling and 5 who died early. I can't imagine what the parents had to go through - their first 3 children died early. You have to become desensitized to not go crazy. 2. Social status / value of children grew a lot.

m_fayer 3y ago

Having children has become way more exhausting: the need for advanced degrees and career climbing before reproduction means we do it later in life when we have less energy. The same factors plus mobility means grandparents are unavailable or worse, in need of care themselves. When both parents have full time jobs, the crunch is even worse. This all has 2 psychological effects: when parents feel like they’re just barely keeping this teetering lifestyle from falling over, they become very controlling. Tight control becomes the name of the game: it’s how everything’s done and anyway no one has the time or energy for the unexpected. Also, when the child represents a gargantuan investment, people become realty protective over their fragile prize. Like a luxury car that you can barely afford: all protective measures will be taken.

Intralexical 3y ago

These days a single killer or predator anywhere on the same continent can strike fear into the minds of millions of people, and do so at the speed of light (in fiber optic). Naturally you'd expect this to result in a much higher base level of fear, as compared to when your community was just people you knew and trusted personally.

lapcat 3y ago
This is it. TV and the internet have made society more fearful. I think America's Most Wanted was a turning point as far as child rearing was concerned. This show sowed and sold parental fear.
asdff 3y ago
I agree that this is probably the predominant factor. Even with my own life, many of my friends and coworkers think I am risking my life somehow when I ride the bus and train in to work. I'm like, have you actually ridden the thing? Sure there are a couple drug addicts and transients but the majority of the riders are just people trying to get across town and I've never once felt unsafe. But try and explain this and its like they refuse to value your actual lived experience in favor of the fear they have bit into hook line and sinker.

ip26 3y ago

Aside from all the good points made by others, it’s interesting that kids are not innately prepared to face many hazards in the modern world alone. Children can find out that rocks hurt through trial and error throwing pebbles at their friends, and they will figure it out. They are instinctively wary of things like snakes. But the threat posed by electrical sockets, stovetops, cars, bleach, power tools, and so forth are not forgiving to experimentation and not instinctive.

asdff 3y ago
See even that doesn't exactly explain the trend. My parents generation had all those risks and more (more deadly power tools and electrics) and the parenting was still absentee at that point. Sure they got into trouble with these things on occasion but a kid learns pretty quick a stove is hot and not to walk into a busy road. In japan they send young kids on errands directly into the modern world where they have all the same risks as they do here, because they understand the value of giving kids a bit of credit.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

> Only within the last generation or two perhaps has childhood changed from one of exploration and freedom to one of restriction and days scheduled to the minute. Do the kids benefit from this unique way of being reared? Probably 90% of kids in the US live boxed in a relatively small area by roads that are 50ft+ (if not 80ft) wide with 40mph speed limits so that huge vehicles are actually traveling at 50mph driven by people looking at their phone. In addition, the density of kids is far less. A single street light only have a handful of kids, and probably not all the same age. A neighborhood might have a bunch, but not enough for the kids to mingle. Plus many send their kids to daycare or afterschool activities. I spend $20k per year per toddler just so they can interact with other toddlers.

ip26 3y ago
I hadn’t considered the double penalty of lower density housing PLUS smaller average family size. You’re right, the average “kid density” has probably plummeted.
asdff 3y ago
Suburbia seems very stifling as a kid. I hated it growing up until I was old enough to drive because like you said, there's nothing to do if no one your age is around. I have since moved to a denser area and I see there are a lot more kids hanging out in groups without needing supervision. Its like how they showed it to us on TV growing up, with gangs of kids of varying heights wheeling around the town on the bus or bikes or skateboards. I'm actually a little jealous of it.