3 ms·

It’s about time we start changing our infrastructure preferences away from 2+t of steel and plastic per person towards public transport, bicycles and walking. B

It’s about time we start changing our infrastructure preferences away from 2+t of steel and plastic per person towards public transport, bicycles and walking. BEVs are nice, but they only address a small fraction of the problems caused by an overreliance on cars.

szundi 3y ago
New wave of bicycle fashions is the thing I envision now everyone buying new bikes every 3 years
- jeffbee 3y ago
  You could buy a fancy-ass bike twice a month for a decade and still not have discarded as much material as is used to build 1 electric car.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  There's a fair bit of evidence that planned obsolescence was practiced in the bicycle industry before being adopted by General Motors, in the sense of annual design and styling changes. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History> Citing: The most benevolent machine: a historical assessment of cycles in Canada, by Sharon Babaian, p. 97: <https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96/mode/2up?q=annual+model https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96...>
- elric 3y ago
  Lowtechmagazine has an interesting write up on that: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycles-sustainable-again/ https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl...
ravetcofx 3y ago
Yup, They'll always have usefulness, but especially in North America we desperately need to deemphasize them immensely. They require far too much precious land usage, are undesirable for people positive spaces and highly inefficient to borderline devastating for local economies.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  After a lifetime of car dependence, I have had such joy living in Oakland now and biking or walking to destinations near and far. I had to go to the airport so I walked 10 minutes to BART and enjoyed the train ride while watching all the people in cars stuck in traffic. I lived at my apartment for over a year before realizing the grocery store was close enough to walk. It's a 15 minute walk so it doesn't feel close if you are in a rush, but also a 15 minute walk through tree-lined streets is really nice for my body and soul and I am trying to rush less and experience each moment as it comes. It's funny that it took me so long to realize I could walk there, but that's car brain for you!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
silisili 3y ago
Even just baby steps of getting rid of oversized everything would help immensely. Less weight is less tire wear, less road wear, and less fuel used. Currently though everyone is in some weird arms race to make larger and larger vehicles. And if you try to buy a tiny one or even a motorbike, you'll just get creamed by some land yacht driver looking through their phone.
- Maxion 3y ago
  The fact though is that trucks create several orders of magnitude more wear on the road than even heavy SUVs. Getting rid of trucks should have a higher priority than cars IMO.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Without trucks every single mid/large city would starve in a week Without SUVs nothing of value would change, we might even see less deaths on the roads
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    Do you mean pickup trucks driven as personal vehicles, or semi trucks that make deliveries?
MarcelOlsz 3y ago
Have you ever driven an older sporty manual car? I was like you once right up until I got my E30 M3. Prying that from my cold dead hands. When billionaires and companies step up I might do the same, until then I'm going to keep loving petrol and I have zero reason to feel guilty.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- MarcelOlsz 3y ago
  Downvoters who can't be bothered to reply are soft :)
  - lm28469 3y ago
    "I love starting fires in the woods during very dry summers, the flames are so pretty, you'll have to kill me to stop XD" That's more or less how you sound. Also speaking of "companies" and "billionaires" while not understanding that car ownership is one of the biggest propaganda win of capitalism in the last 100 years is interesting... it's like a morbidly obese and diabetic person telling you mcdonald's and refined sugar are Freedom
    - MarcelOlsz 3y ago
      >That's more or less how you sound. Also speaking of "companies" and "billionaires" while not understanding that car ownership is one of the biggest propaganda win of capitalism in the last 100 years is interesting... it's like a morbidly obese and diabetic person telling you mcdonald's and refined sugar are Freedom That's my point though. It's clearly not a "propaganda win" if the car itself inspires a feeling. I haven't been "sold" anything as I build my own old cheap cars, I like the act of riding something I can control be it a horse or a vehicle. It's chromebook vs thinkpad. I'll take the thinkpad. I'm not against public transportation at all - but to suggest we get rid of cars entirely is insane. Cars are a feat of engineering not capitalism. I want to see 100x more trains and better public transport and to think that they can't coexist is one of the biggest propaganda wins of progressivism :) >it's like a morbidly obese and diabetic person telling you mcdonald's and refined sugar are Freedom What diseases does my car give me? Fun and community? Sign me up.
elric 3y ago
I've been saying for years that cars should be taxed based in volume & mass. Everything else derives from those attributes. Ideally, a car that's twice as massive is taxed 10x. Fuck this ever increasing drive for bigger cars. Many cars are now so big they don't even fit in parking spaces anymore. And don't even get me started on how dangerous these are for pedestrians and cyclists.
lm28469 3y ago
Honestly if we were smart we'd stop this insanity and merge most car companies by countries/continents, make them produce a few models and call it a day. A small 2 seats for cities, a comfy sedan for people who are on the road X hours per day, some kind of van for large families, trucks/buses In big cities you could even ban personal cars and have a giant fleet of public cars to rent for X km or X days at an attractive price (not hard given the current prices of cars), this would be nationalised of course, maybe included in some kind of global public transport membership. I bike daily and see what kind of people are on the road, you could replaced 90% of cars with a one seater and 30km of electric range and the vast majority of people wouldn't see a single difference in their daily commute.

szundi 3y ago

New wave of bicycle fashions is the thing I envision now everyone buying new bikes every 3 years

jeffbee 3y ago
You could buy a fancy-ass bike twice a month for a decade and still not have discarded as much material as is used to build 1 electric car.
dredmorbius 3y ago
There's a fair bit of evidence that planned obsolescence was practiced in the bicycle industry before being adopted by General Motors, in the sense of annual design and styling changes. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History> Citing: The most benevolent machine: a historical assessment of cycles in Canada, by Sharon Babaian, p. 97: <https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96/mode/2up?q=annual+model https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96...>
elric 3y ago
Lowtechmagazine has an interesting write up on that: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycles-sustainable-again/ https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl...

ravetcofx 3y ago

Yup, They'll always have usefulness, but especially in North America we desperately need to deemphasize them immensely. They require far too much precious land usage, are undesirable for people positive spaces and highly inefficient to borderline devastating for local economies.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
After a lifetime of car dependence, I have had such joy living in Oakland now and biking or walking to destinations near and far. I had to go to the airport so I walked 10 minutes to BART and enjoyed the train ride while watching all the people in cars stuck in traffic. I lived at my apartment for over a year before realizing the grocery store was close enough to walk. It's a 15 minute walk so it doesn't feel close if you are in a rush, but also a 15 minute walk through tree-lined streets is really nice for my body and soul and I am trying to rush less and experience each moment as it comes. It's funny that it took me so long to realize I could walk there, but that's car brain for you!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

silisili 3y ago

Even just baby steps of getting rid of oversized everything would help immensely. Less weight is less tire wear, less road wear, and less fuel used. Currently though everyone is in some weird arms race to make larger and larger vehicles. And if you try to buy a tiny one or even a motorbike, you'll just get creamed by some land yacht driver looking through their phone.

Maxion 3y ago
The fact though is that trucks create several orders of magnitude more wear on the road than even heavy SUVs. Getting rid of trucks should have a higher priority than cars IMO.
- lm28469 3y ago
  Without trucks every single mid/large city would starve in a week Without SUVs nothing of value would change, we might even see less deaths on the roads
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Do you mean pickup trucks driven as personal vehicles, or semi trucks that make deliveries?

MarcelOlsz 3y ago

Have you ever driven an older sporty manual car? I was like you once right up until I got my E30 M3. Prying that from my cold dead hands. When billionaires and companies step up I might do the same, until then I'm going to keep loving petrol and I have zero reason to feel guilty.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MarcelOlsz 3y ago
Downvoters who can't be bothered to reply are soft :)
- lm28469 3y ago
  "I love starting fires in the woods during very dry summers, the flames are so pretty, you'll have to kill me to stop XD" That's more or less how you sound. Also speaking of "companies" and "billionaires" while not understanding that car ownership is one of the biggest propaganda win of capitalism in the last 100 years is interesting... it's like a morbidly obese and diabetic person telling you mcdonald's and refined sugar are Freedom
  - MarcelOlsz 3y ago
    >That's more or less how you sound. Also speaking of "companies" and "billionaires" while not understanding that car ownership is one of the biggest propaganda win of capitalism in the last 100 years is interesting... it's like a morbidly obese and diabetic person telling you mcdonald's and refined sugar are Freedom That's my point though. It's clearly not a "propaganda win" if the car itself inspires a feeling. I haven't been "sold" anything as I build my own old cheap cars, I like the act of riding something I can control be it a horse or a vehicle. It's chromebook vs thinkpad. I'll take the thinkpad. I'm not against public transportation at all - but to suggest we get rid of cars entirely is insane. Cars are a feat of engineering not capitalism. I want to see 100x more trains and better public transport and to think that they can't coexist is one of the biggest propaganda wins of progressivism :) >it's like a morbidly obese and diabetic person telling you mcdonald's and refined sugar are Freedom What diseases does my car give me? Fun and community? Sign me up.

elric 3y ago

I've been saying for years that cars should be taxed based in volume & mass. Everything else derives from those attributes. Ideally, a car that's twice as massive is taxed 10x. Fuck this ever increasing drive for bigger cars. Many cars are now so big they don't even fit in parking spaces anymore. And don't even get me started on how dangerous these are for pedestrians and cyclists.

lm28469 3y ago

Honestly if we were smart we'd stop this insanity and merge most car companies by countries/continents, make them produce a few models and call it a day. A small 2 seats for cities, a comfy sedan for people who are on the road X hours per day, some kind of van for large families, trucks/buses In big cities you could even ban personal cars and have a giant fleet of public cars to rent for X km or X days at an attractive price (not hard given the current prices of cars), this would be nationalised of course, maybe included in some kind of global public transport membership. I bike daily and see what kind of people are on the road, you could replaced 90% of cars with a one seater and 30km of electric range and the vast majority of people wouldn't see a single difference in their daily commute.