3 ms·

Environmental risks of car tyre microplastics and other road pollution runoff

45 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

triyambakam 3y ago
The tired tyres
andrewstuart 3y ago
India has gone all in on making roads out of plastic waste. Apparently it's better to use plastic in a road than put it in landfill because........ errrr..... because... landfill sounds bad? If it turns out that putting all that plastic waste into roads in fact is a way of putting microplastics into the environment then India will be at the forefront.
- throw4way23984 3y ago
  There's a phrase in India, "Ek dum number one", which roughly translates to "absolutely number one". India ek dum number one. It's an absolutely senseless policy, regardless of country, that's going to exacerbate the problem. And the problem of microplastics is just barely starting to garner mainstream attention and long term implications are not fully understood. Probably not a good idea to spew them all over the place regardless. And there's some group of people who continue to downplay the issue (eg downvoting any comment suggesting microplastics are not fully understood and _may_ cause long lasting damage to the ecosystem and health)
  - imp0cat 3y ago
    the problem of microplastics is just barely starting to garner mainstream attention In India? I ask, because in Europe, there definitely is a lot of awareness. Products that advertise no microplastics are common, there are attempts to regulate stuff like brake dust etc....
    - throw4way23984 3y ago
      I'm not in India, so I can't say, but I doubt it's any better than where I am. In non-European western countries, I've seen some news articles now and then mention microplastics, but they're few and very uncommon. Definitely nothing like products that advertise no microplastics. Part of Europe may be ahead of the curve in that regard. For example, PFAS stuff is now entering mainstream attention and government regulations are now being put in place in some countries and regions. It's now common to see products now advertised as PFAS-free. Microplastics is likely decade or more away from getting that kind of attention. Hopefully more research and understanding of the impact is done during that time. But in the meantime countless bits of microplastics are being introduced into the waterways non-stop. Fibers from synthetic clothing, laundry products (PVA, polyester dryer sheets), probably number of other things including tire dust. Unlike the pacific garbage island, this stuff isn't visible, so unlikely to get the type of media attention macro-plastic pollution has gotten over the past decades.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  I'm currently listening to Vandana Shiva's book Terra Viva, which underscores the Indian government's many, many missteps on environmental policy, so perhaps because I have been literally listening to four hours of this today, I would not be surprised if that turned out to be another big mistake that puts some notion of economic production over the environment.
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    I see pictures of highway construction in developing counties and think gads they're doing stuff we realized was a bad idea 50 years ago. One thing I've really noticed about the US is suburb layouts are designs to shield people from traffic using networks of serpentine streets with courts and dead ends which have the side effect of making them completely unwalkable. Like stores might be 100 yards away if you were a crow. But it's half a mile walking.
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      Yep. And while you and me might be tapped in to urbanist YouTube or blogs, the people in power are literally 80 years old, can’t use email, and still think that cars are better than public transit and walkable neighborhoods. It is a problem of the way we allocate power and how susceptible that is to corruption and control by the wealthy, who would rather have old reliable (to their interests) people in charge than young people who might try to upset the balance of things. The more I notice it the more obvious it becomes. I think a lot about how China is getting better and better at manufacturing and in the USA we’re… well maybe staying the same but really just getting worse. And I think it’s the same issue - old politicians who don’t see what’s going on and aren’t willing to make real change. (And the structures that keep things this way.)
adrianN 3y ago
It’s about time we start changing our infrastructure preferences away from 2+t of steel and plastic per person towards public transport, bicycles and walking. BEVs are nice, but they only address a small fraction of the problems caused by an overreliance on cars.
- szundi 3y ago
  New wave of bicycle fashions is the thing I envision now everyone buying new bikes every 3 years
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    You could buy a fancy-ass bike twice a month for a decade and still not have discarded as much material as is used to build 1 electric car.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    There's a fair bit of evidence that planned obsolescence was practiced in the bicycle industry before being adopted by General Motors, in the sense of annual design and styling changes. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History> Citing: The most benevolent machine: a historical assessment of cycles in Canada, by Sharon Babaian, p. 97: <https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96/mode/2up?q=annual+model https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96...>
  - elric 3y ago
    Lowtechmagazine has an interesting write up on that: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycles-sustainable-again/ https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl...
- ravetcofx 3y ago
  Yup, They'll always have usefulness, but especially in North America we desperately need to deemphasize them immensely. They require far too much precious land usage, are undesirable for people positive spaces and highly inefficient to borderline devastating for local economies.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
modeless 3y ago
> different tires were found to vary in toxicity by 2 orders of magnitude I think that this problem simply hasn't been seriously attacked yet. Clearly it's possible to do much better without going to the extreme of forcing everyone to use bikes or trains instead, as some would like. I personally would much prefer to live in a world where tires are regulated to be completely non-toxic at (say) a 50% performance or cost penalty, vs. a world where I'm not allowed to drive a car at all and have to ride bikes and trains everywhere instead.

45 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

The tired tyres

India has gone all in on making roads out of plastic waste. Apparently it's better to use plastic in a road than put it in landfill because........ errrr..... because... landfill sounds bad? If it turns out that putting all that plastic waste into roads in fact is a way of putting microplastics into the environment then India will be at the forefront.

throw4way23984 3y ago
There's a phrase in India, "Ek dum number one", which roughly translates to "absolutely number one". India ek dum number one. It's an absolutely senseless policy, regardless of country, that's going to exacerbate the problem. And the problem of microplastics is just barely starting to garner mainstream attention and long term implications are not fully understood. Probably not a good idea to spew them all over the place regardless. And there's some group of people who continue to downplay the issue (eg downvoting any comment suggesting microplastics are not fully understood and _may_ cause long lasting damage to the ecosystem and health)
- imp0cat 3y ago
  the problem of microplastics is just barely starting to garner mainstream attention In India? I ask, because in Europe, there definitely is a lot of awareness. Products that advertise no microplastics are common, there are attempts to regulate stuff like brake dust etc....
  - throw4way23984 3y ago
    I'm not in India, so I can't say, but I doubt it's any better than where I am. In non-European western countries, I've seen some news articles now and then mention microplastics, but they're few and very uncommon. Definitely nothing like products that advertise no microplastics. Part of Europe may be ahead of the curve in that regard. For example, PFAS stuff is now entering mainstream attention and government regulations are now being put in place in some countries and regions. It's now common to see products now advertised as PFAS-free. Microplastics is likely decade or more away from getting that kind of attention. Hopefully more research and understanding of the impact is done during that time. But in the meantime countless bits of microplastics are being introduced into the waterways non-stop. Fibers from synthetic clothing, laundry products (PVA, polyester dryer sheets), probably number of other things including tire dust. Unlike the pacific garbage island, this stuff isn't visible, so unlikely to get the type of media attention macro-plastic pollution has gotten over the past decades.
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
I'm currently listening to Vandana Shiva's book Terra Viva, which underscores the Indian government's many, many missteps on environmental policy, so perhaps because I have been literally listening to four hours of this today, I would not be surprised if that turned out to be another big mistake that puts some notion of economic production over the environment.
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  I see pictures of highway construction in developing counties and think gads they're doing stuff we realized was a bad idea 50 years ago. One thing I've really noticed about the US is suburb layouts are designs to shield people from traffic using networks of serpentine streets with courts and dead ends which have the side effect of making them completely unwalkable. Like stores might be 100 yards away if you were a crow. But it's half a mile walking.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    Yep. And while you and me might be tapped in to urbanist YouTube or blogs, the people in power are literally 80 years old, can’t use email, and still think that cars are better than public transit and walkable neighborhoods. It is a problem of the way we allocate power and how susceptible that is to corruption and control by the wealthy, who would rather have old reliable (to their interests) people in charge than young people who might try to upset the balance of things. The more I notice it the more obvious it becomes. I think a lot about how China is getting better and better at manufacturing and in the USA we’re… well maybe staying the same but really just getting worse. And I think it’s the same issue - old politicians who don’t see what’s going on and aren’t willing to make real change. (And the structures that keep things this way.)

adrianN 3y ago

It’s about time we start changing our infrastructure preferences away from 2+t of steel and plastic per person towards public transport, bicycles and walking. BEVs are nice, but they only address a small fraction of the problems caused by an overreliance on cars.

szundi 3y ago
New wave of bicycle fashions is the thing I envision now everyone buying new bikes every 3 years
- jeffbee 3y ago
  You could buy a fancy-ass bike twice a month for a decade and still not have discarded as much material as is used to build 1 electric car.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  There's a fair bit of evidence that planned obsolescence was practiced in the bicycle industry before being adopted by General Motors, in the sense of annual design and styling changes. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#History> Citing: The most benevolent machine: a historical assessment of cycles in Canada, by Sharon Babaian, p. 97: <https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96/mode/2up?q=annual+model https://archive.org/details/mostbenevolentma0000baba/page/96...>
- elric 3y ago
  Lowtechmagazine has an interesting write up on that: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycles-sustainable-again/ https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl...
ravetcofx 3y ago
Yup, They'll always have usefulness, but especially in North America we desperately need to deemphasize them immensely. They require far too much precious land usage, are undesirable for people positive spaces and highly inefficient to borderline devastating for local economies.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

modeless 3y ago

> different tires were found to vary in toxicity by 2 orders of magnitude I think that this problem simply hasn't been seriously attacked yet. Clearly it's possible to do much better without going to the extreme of forcing everyone to use bikes or trains instead, as some would like. I personally would much prefer to live in a world where tires are regulated to be completely non-toxic at (say) a 50% performance or cost penalty, vs. a world where I'm not allowed to drive a car at all and have to ride bikes and trains everywhere instead.