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One thing I've always been curious about, and have never been able to find a solid answer too, is what data is available to the various companies whose software

One thing I've always been curious about, and have never been able to find a solid answer too, is what data is available to the various companies whose software I have on my phone? What can AT&T/TMobile/etc... learn from my device as my carrier? What can the apps I have installed decern from my device if I allow no access to anything settings? How does this change if I use a vpn? I have an idea of whats possible based on my career in tech, but I'd love a more solid answer. Happy to read any content answering the aforementioned.

jstarfish 3y ago
I don't know of any carrier hypervisory capability, but there has been a lot of discussion about OnePlus phones and the data they exfiltrate. There's a bunch of vendor bloatware even on my factory-reset phones so it's not out of the question that a carrier-locked phone might have snuck something else in there. Intelligence can be inferred at the carrier level even with paranoid privacy settings and all apps using HTTPS. CDNs in particular frequently serve content over regular HTTP, and there aren't too many reasons why you'd be communicating with Grindr's CDN. All of this is visible over the wire. DNS requests betray a lot about you. VPNs are notoriously leaky when it comes to DNS as well. I'd expect that even with a VPN running you're not stopping anything, just changing the exfiltration route for some of your traffic.
HenryBemis 3y ago
Chances are yes. On Android, you can control 'some' of the permissions - the basic ones (contacts, calendar, location, etc.) There are some though "view Wi-Fi connections", "have full network access", "view network connections", "query all packages", "advertising ID permission", and so on, that give the app (and it's creator) a good view of what's going on in your phone. I tend to (by trial & error) block everything with NoRoot Firewall. Those who want to be naughty though cannot be stopped, as they send both useful and telemetry through the same connection/target IP.
mike_d 3y ago
> but I'd love a more solid answer Unfortunately that isn't a question you'll get an answer to. Anyone who actually knows and has access to sensitive sources and methods is under an obligation not to disclose them. Further nobody in the know wants to burn these sources - because it makes their job harder. The general advice I can give is use an iPhone (turn on Lock Down mode if you believe you might be the target of well resourced attackers), use Google suite for your personal data (and turn on Advanced Protection), don't use commercially available VPNs (set up your own or just don't connect to wifi in untrusted places), and periodically delete third party apps you don't use (especially any that use location services).
- cryptonector 3y ago
  You can do your own analysis on what various players can see based on the OS, the OS vendor, the apps, etc. Basically they get a ton of information.
- mr_machine 3y ago
  How does it make sense to recommend Google Suite to someone unusually concerned with privacy?
  - mike_d 3y ago
    Because most of the "common knowledge" around Google and privacy is hyperbole. Ask any ex-Google engineer how easy it is to get past a Security & Privacy launch review or how easily they can access personal customer data in prod. You are more than welcome to try and secure your own stuff against nation state attackers. Or you can outsource that work to a company that has some of the best security minds in the world watching over your account 24/7.
nebula8804 3y ago
I am not sure if this is exactly what you are asking. Are you looking for aggregated data on yourself or methods to discover what is being transferred? For the latter: One thing you can do is install a man in the middle and "sniff" what is being transferred by your phone (at least on wifi). I use a tool called Proxyman, it allows me to install a self signed certificate on my phone and this allows the decryption of SSL traffic by Proxyman. From there its kinda like Wireshark (If you have used that). It basically shows you all the data going in and out of the device. So with the pieces set up you then start a new sniffing session and then open up an app on your phone and use it. This will show you all the data that is being transferred. A lot of apps are transferring all sorts of data. For myself its become so burdensome that I am trying to find a way to automate this analysis for all my apps so I can build a personal "web" of what data has left what app and keep a record of it. Not all data is horrendous, for example every app I have tested transfers some sort of data on analytics for QA and app quality improvements. Things like app crash reports or other things of that nature. Thats not so bad compared to other data. You can also try decompiling an app and seeing what libraries are used. Using these two things for example I learned about the 7-Eleven app and its usage of Bluetooth beacons so they can track were you are going when you are in their store.
- asdffdasasdf 3y ago
  "learn a dozen technologies to the point of being an expert on all fields and then waste 2 months of work on each app, which will update every three days" you're not wrong, but not going anywhere either.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    What are you talking about? What dozen technologies? Wasting 2 months on what?
baranul 3y ago
These are good questions. Would also be great to rank the data as a list, as to what's the most in demand.

jstarfish 3y ago

I don't know of any carrier hypervisory capability, but there has been a lot of discussion about OnePlus phones and the data they exfiltrate. There's a bunch of vendor bloatware even on my factory-reset phones so it's not out of the question that a carrier-locked phone might have snuck something else in there. Intelligence can be inferred at the carrier level even with paranoid privacy settings and all apps using HTTPS. CDNs in particular frequently serve content over regular HTTP, and there aren't too many reasons why you'd be communicating with Grindr's CDN. All of this is visible over the wire. DNS requests betray a lot about you. VPNs are notoriously leaky when it comes to DNS as well. I'd expect that even with a VPN running you're not stopping anything, just changing the exfiltration route for some of your traffic.

HenryBemis 3y ago

Chances are yes. On Android, you can control 'some' of the permissions - the basic ones (contacts, calendar, location, etc.) There are some though "view Wi-Fi connections", "have full network access", "view network connections", "query all packages", "advertising ID permission", and so on, that give the app (and it's creator) a good view of what's going on in your phone. I tend to (by trial & error) block everything with NoRoot Firewall. Those who want to be naughty though cannot be stopped, as they send both useful and telemetry through the same connection/target IP.

mike_d 3y ago

> but I'd love a more solid answer Unfortunately that isn't a question you'll get an answer to. Anyone who actually knows and has access to sensitive sources and methods is under an obligation not to disclose them. Further nobody in the know wants to burn these sources - because it makes their job harder. The general advice I can give is use an iPhone (turn on Lock Down mode if you believe you might be the target of well resourced attackers), use Google suite for your personal data (and turn on Advanced Protection), don't use commercially available VPNs (set up your own or just don't connect to wifi in untrusted places), and periodically delete third party apps you don't use (especially any that use location services).

cryptonector 3y ago
You can do your own analysis on what various players can see based on the OS, the OS vendor, the apps, etc. Basically they get a ton of information.
mr_machine 3y ago
How does it make sense to recommend Google Suite to someone unusually concerned with privacy?
- mike_d 3y ago
  Because most of the "common knowledge" around Google and privacy is hyperbole. Ask any ex-Google engineer how easy it is to get past a Security & Privacy launch review or how easily they can access personal customer data in prod. You are more than welcome to try and secure your own stuff against nation state attackers. Or you can outsource that work to a company that has some of the best security minds in the world watching over your account 24/7.

nebula8804 3y ago

I am not sure if this is exactly what you are asking. Are you looking for aggregated data on yourself or methods to discover what is being transferred? For the latter: One thing you can do is install a man in the middle and "sniff" what is being transferred by your phone (at least on wifi). I use a tool called Proxyman, it allows me to install a self signed certificate on my phone and this allows the decryption of SSL traffic by Proxyman. From there its kinda like Wireshark (If you have used that). It basically shows you all the data going in and out of the device. So with the pieces set up you then start a new sniffing session and then open up an app on your phone and use it. This will show you all the data that is being transferred. A lot of apps are transferring all sorts of data. For myself its become so burdensome that I am trying to find a way to automate this analysis for all my apps so I can build a personal "web" of what data has left what app and keep a record of it. Not all data is horrendous, for example every app I have tested transfers some sort of data on analytics for QA and app quality improvements. Things like app crash reports or other things of that nature. Thats not so bad compared to other data. You can also try decompiling an app and seeing what libraries are used. Using these two things for example I learned about the 7-Eleven app and its usage of Bluetooth beacons so they can track were you are going when you are in their store.

asdffdasasdf 3y ago
"learn a dozen technologies to the point of being an expert on all fields and then waste 2 months of work on each app, which will update every three days" you're not wrong, but not going anywhere either.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  What are you talking about? What dozen technologies? Wasting 2 months on what?

baranul 3y ago

These are good questions. Would also be great to rank the data as a list, as to what's the most in demand.