4 ms·

Cappuccino 0.6 Released

30 points by jaydub 18y ago

jmtame 18y ago
So this is sort of like Flex, but uses JavaScript modeled after Objective-C? Edit: I'm checking out the demos... this is sick. Silverlight won't kill Flash/Flex, Cappuccino will.
- thomasmallen 18y ago
  This is just JavaScript, you know. Here's the Flickr demo shown on the Cappuccino site reimplemented using jQuery, with improvements to boot: http://www.brokendigits.com/2008/09/05/cappucinos-flickrdemo-in-45-lines-of-jquery/ http://www.brokendigits.com/2008/09/05/cappucinos-flickrdemo...
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
- hello_moto 18y ago
  Um... I think GWT will kill them all. http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/12/google-web-toolkit-out-in-wild.html http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/12/google-web-t...
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
snprbob86 18y ago
I've seen a few posts about Objective-J, Cappuccino and 280slides. Very cool stuff, incredible work guys. Unfortunately, I haven't really found any deep technical information about Objective-J or Cappuccino. I've read about the what and the why, but I'm really curious about the how. Anyone know of any resources?
- tlrobinson 18y ago
  Did you see this previous blog post? It talks a little about the "why": http://cappuccino.org/discuss/2008/12/08/on-leaky-abstractions-and-objective-j/ http://cappuccino.org/discuss/2008/12/08/on-leaky-abstractio...
  - snprbob86 18y ago
    That was the major "why" I saw.
- boucher 18y ago
  What kind of technical information are you looking for? There are tutorials and documentation for learning how to use Objective-J and Cappuccino on the site. If you're looking for details on how we built it, there best available information is the source code :). I don't believe we've published a lot of in depth material on specific technical developments, though if I had the time I think it would be a great thing to do.
  - snprbob86 18y ago
    "best available information is the source code" That's what I was afraid of :-) I'm not building a big serious web app, so I have no real reason to learn Cappuccino that deeply. I also have no end of curiosity, so I am explicitly avoiding downloading the source code for fear of the time sink that would cause. I was hoping for a blog post or two detailing some of the techniques and machinery involved with creating the compile-free Objective-J constructs. It would also be really interesting to hear what sort of effort was required in porting Cocoa. I'm not looking for "talk to me like I'm a 3 year old". I'm looking for "here's the gist of it", hacker to hacker. From where I am sitting now Objective-J is a pretty freaking impressive magic trick. I'd just like a peek behind the curtain, but I don't really want to see the schematics. I'm sure you guys are even busier than I am, but if you do get a spare moment, I'd really appreciate it if you shared. I think it would probably also drive adoption. If it seems like an impressive magic trick to me, it probably seems like evil black magic and sorcery to others.
poshj 18y ago
hmmm... I tried the 280slides demo, it seems only for English. I can't type in Japanese and Chinese.
- hello_moto 18y ago
  Probably because it's not trivial to support i18n in Cappucino? Try GWT, it has wonderful i18n support.
  - tlrobinson 18y ago
    It's actually a 280 Slides issue, not a Cappuccino issue. The text editor (custom for 280 Slides) doesn't support entry of non-Latin characters. However, if you copy and paste from another application you'll see the underlying framework handles it fine.
    - boucher 18y ago
      This has nothing to do with the framework. Javascript supports unicode characters, and so anything built on top of it for displaying strings will too. The reason 280 Slides doesn't do this correctly is because it implements its own text editor by intercepting all keypresses. Unfortunately, there's not enough information in the JavaScript key event mechanism to properly handle internationalization this way. We'll eventually be removing this custom text editor in favor of a more standard approach. Separately, while there's not currently anything built in for localization in Cappuccino, there will eventually be the same system that exists in Cocoa, which makes it trivial to do "i18n" with little or no actual coding.
volida 18y ago
I tried running 280slides on IE 7.0 and it loaded 100% and waited for 15 seconds and nothing Then I tried hitting refresh and hanged the instance. When I checked the memory it was leaking. *update: if it's helpful, the exact version is 7.05730.11 running on Windows x64
jawngee 18y ago
Awesome job guys. This is fantastic. I'm curious about payload. Looked to be close to 160K for the "runtime"? How is the objective-j parser done?
- boucher 18y ago
  Objective-J (the "runtime") is 76k, 13k gzipped (which is smaller than jQuery). The two frameworks that make up Cappuccino weigh in at about 800k uncompressed, and about 150k total compressed. It's not a trivial amount, but its equally not very unusual. We're also not adding any html or css size to that, since you don't use either when using Cappuccino.

30 points by jaydub 18y ago

So this is sort of like Flex, but uses JavaScript modeled after Objective-C? Edit: I'm checking out the demos... this is sick. Silverlight won't kill Flash/Flex, Cappuccino will.

thomasmallen 18y ago
This is just JavaScript, you know. Here's the Flickr demo shown on the Cappuccino site reimplemented using jQuery, with improvements to boot: http://www.brokendigits.com/2008/09/05/cappucinos-flickrdemo-in-45-lines-of-jquery/ http://www.brokendigits.com/2008/09/05/cappucinos-flickrdemo...
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
hello_moto 18y ago
Um... I think GWT will kill them all. http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/12/google-web-toolkit-out-in-wild.html http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/12/google-web-t...
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]

snprbob86 18y ago

I've seen a few posts about Objective-J, Cappuccino and 280slides. Very cool stuff, incredible work guys. Unfortunately, I haven't really found any deep technical information about Objective-J or Cappuccino. I've read about the what and the why, but I'm really curious about the how. Anyone know of any resources?

tlrobinson 18y ago
Did you see this previous blog post? It talks a little about the "why": http://cappuccino.org/discuss/2008/12/08/on-leaky-abstractions-and-objective-j/ http://cappuccino.org/discuss/2008/12/08/on-leaky-abstractio...
- snprbob86 18y ago
  That was the major "why" I saw.
boucher 18y ago
What kind of technical information are you looking for? There are tutorials and documentation for learning how to use Objective-J and Cappuccino on the site. If you're looking for details on how we built it, there best available information is the source code :). I don't believe we've published a lot of in depth material on specific technical developments, though if I had the time I think it would be a great thing to do.
- snprbob86 18y ago
  "best available information is the source code" That's what I was afraid of :-) I'm not building a big serious web app, so I have no real reason to learn Cappuccino that deeply. I also have no end of curiosity, so I am explicitly avoiding downloading the source code for fear of the time sink that would cause. I was hoping for a blog post or two detailing some of the techniques and machinery involved with creating the compile-free Objective-J constructs. It would also be really interesting to hear what sort of effort was required in porting Cocoa. I'm not looking for "talk to me like I'm a 3 year old". I'm looking for "here's the gist of it", hacker to hacker. From where I am sitting now Objective-J is a pretty freaking impressive magic trick. I'd just like a peek behind the curtain, but I don't really want to see the schematics. I'm sure you guys are even busier than I am, but if you do get a spare moment, I'd really appreciate it if you shared. I think it would probably also drive adoption. If it seems like an impressive magic trick to me, it probably seems like evil black magic and sorcery to others.

poshj 18y ago

hmmm... I tried the 280slides demo, it seems only for English. I can't type in Japanese and Chinese.

hello_moto 18y ago
Probably because it's not trivial to support i18n in Cappucino? Try GWT, it has wonderful i18n support.
- tlrobinson 18y ago
  It's actually a 280 Slides issue, not a Cappuccino issue. The text editor (custom for 280 Slides) doesn't support entry of non-Latin characters. However, if you copy and paste from another application you'll see the underlying framework handles it fine.
  - boucher 18y ago
    This has nothing to do with the framework. Javascript supports unicode characters, and so anything built on top of it for displaying strings will too. The reason 280 Slides doesn't do this correctly is because it implements its own text editor by intercepting all keypresses. Unfortunately, there's not enough information in the JavaScript key event mechanism to properly handle internationalization this way. We'll eventually be removing this custom text editor in favor of a more standard approach. Separately, while there's not currently anything built in for localization in Cappuccino, there will eventually be the same system that exists in Cocoa, which makes it trivial to do "i18n" with little or no actual coding.

volida 18y ago

I tried running 280slides on IE 7.0 and it loaded 100% and waited for 15 seconds and nothing Then I tried hitting refresh and hanged the instance. When I checked the memory it was leaking. *update: if it's helpful, the exact version is 7.05730.11 running on Windows x64

jawngee 18y ago

Awesome job guys. This is fantastic. I'm curious about payload. Looked to be close to 160K for the "runtime"? How is the objective-j parser done?

boucher 18y ago
Objective-J (the "runtime") is 76k, 13k gzipped (which is smaller than jQuery). The two frameworks that make up Cappuccino weigh in at about 800k uncompressed, and about 150k total compressed. It's not a trivial amount, but its equally not very unusual. We're also not adding any html or css size to that, since you don't use either when using Cappuccino.