5 ms·

Fun historical fact: as recently as 1987, the NYT advocated against any minimum wage at all: https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/14/opinion/the-right-minimum-wage-0

Fun historical fact: as recently as 1987, the NYT advocated against any minimum wage at all: https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/14/opinion/the-right-minimum-wage-0.00.html https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/14/opinion/the-right-minimum... > there's a virtual consensus among economists that the minimum wage is an idea whose time has passed. Raising the minimum wage by a substantial amount would price working poor people out of the job market. A far better way to help them would be to subsidize their wages or - better yet - help them acquire the skills needed to earn more on their own.

idontwantthis 3y ago
It’s an issue I’ve chosen to have no opinion on. I’ve seen studies showing it reduced employment and I’ve seen studies showing it pressured all wages upwards without reducing employment. In the end: IDK but it doesn’t seem like the best issue to focus on to help people.
- dexzod 3y ago
  But doesn't it help the state overall, because more people will become ineligible for tax breaks and other diverse subsidies and programs the state offer's for the low-income households. Has any study taken a look at that?
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    I had the same thought: 35hr x $7 = 245, x4 weeks = $980 35hr x $15 = 525, x4 weeks = $2100 At my poorest (and with 3 dependents) EBT only ever paid out $~650 a month. The gross delta here is $1120. So the state should come out ahead. But all I've heard of is hours being cut in line with wage increases. So few workers are pulling that $2100 and are presumably still on benefits.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  Surely there is some level at which it will reduce unemployment. So really it’s just an argument as to what the right level is.
lancesells 3y ago
27 years is a pretty long time. In that time the wealth gap has widened and the minimum wage fears of businesses closing or poor people not getting a job seems to be false. It's particularly gross that so many states have a minimum wage of a little over $7 in 2024. That's ~$14k before taxes at 40 hours a week.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > That's ~$14k before taxes at 40 hours a week I think that’s a liveable wage in some parts of farm country. Not great. But better than being undercut by illegal labour. (At least, that’s the argument one would have to disprove. I’m generally in favour of a $25/hour minimum wage.)
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  > 27 years is a pretty long time. Even longer than you think, since 1987 was 37 years ago.
dbrueck 3y ago
For many of us small business owners, that 1987 opinion is on the money. The direct and immediate consequence of raising the minimum wage by a bunch is that I'd have to lay a couple of people off, which would be heartbreaking (for them of course, but also for me). Unskilled labor simply isn't worth very much most of the time, but it's nice to help people get their foot in the door. One of my absolute favorite outcomes for an employee is to have them grow in capacity so that I "have" to pay them way much more than some artificial wage floor because they've developed into a solid contributor.
- skywhopper 3y ago
  If you’d been giving reasonable cost of living adjustments over the years and paying a living wage to your employees in the first place instead of just paying the minimum, then a raise wouldn’t be such a shock.
  - thrill 3y ago
    What sort of small business do you run?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - dbrueck 3y ago
    What on earth are you talking about? We give cost of living increases to every employee every single year.

idontwantthis 3y ago

It’s an issue I’ve chosen to have no opinion on. I’ve seen studies showing it reduced employment and I’ve seen studies showing it pressured all wages upwards without reducing employment. In the end: IDK but it doesn’t seem like the best issue to focus on to help people.

dexzod 3y ago
But doesn't it help the state overall, because more people will become ineligible for tax breaks and other diverse subsidies and programs the state offer's for the low-income households. Has any study taken a look at that?
- jstarfish 3y ago
  I had the same thought: 35hr x $7 = 245, x4 weeks = $980 35hr x $15 = 525, x4 weeks = $2100 At my poorest (and with 3 dependents) EBT only ever paid out $~650 a month. The gross delta here is $1120. So the state should come out ahead. But all I've heard of is hours being cut in line with wage increases. So few workers are pulling that $2100 and are presumably still on benefits.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Surely there is some level at which it will reduce unemployment. So really it’s just an argument as to what the right level is.

lancesells 3y ago

27 years is a pretty long time. In that time the wealth gap has widened and the minimum wage fears of businesses closing or poor people not getting a job seems to be false. It's particularly gross that so many states have a minimum wage of a little over $7 in 2024. That's ~$14k before taxes at 40 hours a week.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> That's ~$14k before taxes at 40 hours a week I think that’s a liveable wage in some parts of farm country. Not great. But better than being undercut by illegal labour. (At least, that’s the argument one would have to disprove. I’m generally in favour of a $25/hour minimum wage.)
xboxnolifes 3y ago
> 27 years is a pretty long time. Even longer than you think, since 1987 was 37 years ago.

dbrueck 3y ago

For many of us small business owners, that 1987 opinion is on the money. The direct and immediate consequence of raising the minimum wage by a bunch is that I'd have to lay a couple of people off, which would be heartbreaking (for them of course, but also for me). Unskilled labor simply isn't worth very much most of the time, but it's nice to help people get their foot in the door. One of my absolute favorite outcomes for an employee is to have them grow in capacity so that I "have" to pay them way much more than some artificial wage floor because they've developed into a solid contributor.

skywhopper 3y ago
If you’d been giving reasonable cost of living adjustments over the years and paying a living wage to your employees in the first place instead of just paying the minimum, then a raise wouldn’t be such a shock.
- thrill 3y ago
  What sort of small business do you run?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- dbrueck 3y ago
  What on earth are you talking about? We give cost of living increases to every employee every single year.