4 ms·

This is tragic but it's noteworthy because it is NOT the norm. Unlike, say, what's going on in Ukraine with frequent missile strikes into arbitrary civilian are

This is tragic but it's noteworthy because it is NOT the norm. Unlike, say, what's going on in Ukraine with frequent missile strikes into arbitrary civilian areas. This is a serious failure of controls that warranted direct attention and the apology of the president. imo this is moreso evidence that the US takes its controls seriously rather than frivolously.

ein0p 3y ago
Both of those things are lies though. Per the British medical journal Lancet, approximately 600000 civilians were killed in Iraq. Per the UN estimates fewer than 11k civilians were killed so far in Ukraine.
- spywaregorilla 3y ago
  I don't really care enough to get into this, so I won't respond further but that study has largely been debunked. It uses both flawed methodology and appears to have outright fabricated data regarding death certificates. Further, it is grossly misleading to imply that the 600k killed were the result of reckless US military strikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_cas...
  - ein0p 3y ago
    Wikipedia, really? Ok, let’s set that one aside for the moment. What are your thoughts on this here gem from the first Iraq war: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI Is that “humane” or “proportional”?
    - spywaregorilla 3y ago
      I think this is a very well documented wikipedia link personally. I'm not interested in following your link.
foverzar 3y ago
> This is tragic but it's noteworthy because it is NOT the norm. Unlike, say, what's going on in Ukraine with frequent missile strikes into arbitrary civilian areas. Let's not dismiss the propaganda factor here. No one caring about their livelihood in the west will ever be digging too deep into US/NATO totally-not-war-crimes-just-collateral-shit-happens-you-know, as well as no one will be arguing Russia's case the same way Ukraine's attacks over Belgorod Region and office buildings in Moscow are excused with "this missile/drone was on its way to a military target, but was shot down over civilians heads by air defense". Assange's case is a very illustrative example what happens when something gets loud enough to actually matter and disrupt the image of righteousness.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  Everyone knows the US and NATO have done horrible shit, but unless you have a child's view of the world it's incredibly obvious that the US and NATO take incredible steps to minimize civilian casualties. Much more than non-NATO aligned military powers. It's good to learn about the past, but it doesn't actually tell you anything about how modern western military operations actually work. You'll always be able to cherry pick random platoons doing heinous shit because humans are still humans. Just because you are from the west does not mean you are better than anyone else.
  - sschueller 3y ago
    Is this how people excuse away the genocide currently being committed by Israel with the support of the United States? The US is the only reason this is still going and children are currently starving to death. As long it's for the greater good its ok right? /s
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > US is the only reason this is still going America is far from the only reason for the War is Gaza. It’s a major contributor to Israel’s war machine, but it’s also one to Palestinian aid.

ein0p 3y ago

Both of those things are lies though. Per the British medical journal Lancet, approximately 600000 civilians were killed in Iraq. Per the UN estimates fewer than 11k civilians were killed so far in Ukraine.

spywaregorilla 3y ago
I don't really care enough to get into this, so I won't respond further but that study has largely been debunked. It uses both flawed methodology and appears to have outright fabricated data regarding death certificates. Further, it is grossly misleading to imply that the 600k killed were the result of reckless US military strikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_cas...
- ein0p 3y ago
  Wikipedia, really? Ok, let’s set that one aside for the moment. What are your thoughts on this here gem from the first Iraq war: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI Is that “humane” or “proportional”?
  - spywaregorilla 3y ago
    I think this is a very well documented wikipedia link personally. I'm not interested in following your link.

foverzar 3y ago

> This is tragic but it's noteworthy because it is NOT the norm. Unlike, say, what's going on in Ukraine with frequent missile strikes into arbitrary civilian areas. Let's not dismiss the propaganda factor here. No one caring about their livelihood in the west will ever be digging too deep into US/NATO totally-not-war-crimes-just-collateral-shit-happens-you-know, as well as no one will be arguing Russia's case the same way Ukraine's attacks over Belgorod Region and office buildings in Moscow are excused with "this missile/drone was on its way to a military target, but was shot down over civilians heads by air defense". Assange's case is a very illustrative example what happens when something gets loud enough to actually matter and disrupt the image of righteousness.

overstay8930 3y ago
Everyone knows the US and NATO have done horrible shit, but unless you have a child's view of the world it's incredibly obvious that the US and NATO take incredible steps to minimize civilian casualties. Much more than non-NATO aligned military powers. It's good to learn about the past, but it doesn't actually tell you anything about how modern western military operations actually work. You'll always be able to cherry pick random platoons doing heinous shit because humans are still humans. Just because you are from the west does not mean you are better than anyone else.
- sschueller 3y ago
  Is this how people excuse away the genocide currently being committed by Israel with the support of the United States? The US is the only reason this is still going and children are currently starving to death. As long it's for the greater good its ok right? /s
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > US is the only reason this is still going America is far from the only reason for the War is Gaza. It’s a major contributor to Israel’s war machine, but it’s also one to Palestinian aid.