3 ms·

Lol, that reminds me of another fun one. Every so often my company would provide lunches for the developers. However, they didn't want to spend too much money

Lol, that reminds me of another fun one. Every so often my company would provide lunches for the developers. However, they didn't want to spend too much money doing this. So how did they resolve it? They put together a committee of devs to discuss lunch options/etc. Easily 1+million/year of salary in one room debating whether we do Jimmy Johns or McDonalds and how they'd get the food to the office. For $2000, you can get some pretty nice catering for 100 people. But like you said, people just seem bad at thinking of that sort of big picture.

pants2 3y ago
Providing daily lunches to developers is an insane ROI and I don't know why it's not standard practice. It's pennies compared to their salary, and they are happier, spend more time thinking about work instead of what/where to get lunch, spend more time eating together and conversing, and probably eat healthier food which mitigates the post-lunch coma.
- mnahkies 3y ago
  +1 to this, I had one job where lunch was provided and it very much brought people together, particularly across team boundaries / job levels, and often "tricked" you into having pseudo meetings over lunch. I find that still happens organically in smaller companies without, but in larger companies things trend towards more clique like behaviour without it (caveat small sample size)
- cogman10 3y ago
  Used to be something that companies just generally recognized as a good thing. Look at workplaces built in the 60 to 80s and basically all of them had cafeterias as part of the building plan. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/24/nyregion/company-cafeterias-as-corporate-tool.html https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/24/nyregion/company-cafeteri...
  - jdsully 3y ago
    They were generally paid cafeterias though.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      When I worked at a merchant bank in London in the 90s there was a very good cafeteria with great food that was not free, but it was so subsidised that it might as well be.
    - cogman10 3y ago
      Subsidized. The trick was striking a balance in making the food cheap enough that the employees would eat it but not so cheap that the company is footing the entire bill.
- phonon 3y ago
  In part since it's a taxable benefit to the employee, absent extenuating circumstances. Not all employees want to "pay" for "free" food. https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2019-0493-employer-must-substantiate-necessity-of-employer-provided-meals-for-value-to-be-excluded-from-employee-income-irs-tam-emphasizes https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2019-0493-employer-must-substant...
  - pants2 3y ago
    Does this really get reported to the IRS in practice? Most companies provide free coffee and I've never seen that reported to the IRS either.
    - phonon 3y ago
      Snacks have always been okay...from that link-- "Snacks The TAM separately considers whether the value of snacks provided to employees is excludable from income under Section 119. Rather than revisit the business reasons previously analyzed, the TAM relies on Tougher v. Commissioner, 441 F.2d 1148 (9th Cir. 1971), to determine that the snacks are not meals. Accordingly, a snack cannot be a meal furnished for the convenience of the employer. Nevertheless, the TAM does conclude that the value of the snacks is excludable from employee income as de minimis fringe benefits under Section 132(e)(1)."
ajacksified 3y ago
Same thing with hardware in every company I've worked at. Really, "Sr. Staff Engineer Alice" makes $300k/yr, but only gets a budget of $2k for a laptop that's meant to last four years and is their primary tool? How does this make sense?
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  I see devs that are paid a fortune and they use these silly 20 or 24 inch monitors and I don't understand it. A large 4K monitor is a very cheap and really increases productivity. Give them 3 ffs. Meanwhile, there is an accountant somewhere that thinks he's a genius for keeping the hardware budget in check.
skirmish 3y ago
Another good one: my company periodically forces all software engineers to wipe their workstations / laptops and re-install everything from scratch. I have one such wipe coming up, with no way to avoid it, will probably spend 3-4 days just setting up all software again and do no work.

pants2 3y ago

Providing daily lunches to developers is an insane ROI and I don't know why it's not standard practice. It's pennies compared to their salary, and they are happier, spend more time thinking about work instead of what/where to get lunch, spend more time eating together and conversing, and probably eat healthier food which mitigates the post-lunch coma.

mnahkies 3y ago
+1 to this, I had one job where lunch was provided and it very much brought people together, particularly across team boundaries / job levels, and often "tricked" you into having pseudo meetings over lunch. I find that still happens organically in smaller companies without, but in larger companies things trend towards more clique like behaviour without it (caveat small sample size)
cogman10 3y ago
Used to be something that companies just generally recognized as a good thing. Look at workplaces built in the 60 to 80s and basically all of them had cafeterias as part of the building plan. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/24/nyregion/company-cafeterias-as-corporate-tool.html https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/24/nyregion/company-cafeteri...
- jdsully 3y ago
  They were generally paid cafeterias though.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    When I worked at a merchant bank in London in the 90s there was a very good cafeteria with great food that was not free, but it was so subsidised that it might as well be.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    Subsidized. The trick was striking a balance in making the food cheap enough that the employees would eat it but not so cheap that the company is footing the entire bill.
phonon 3y ago
In part since it's a taxable benefit to the employee, absent extenuating circumstances. Not all employees want to "pay" for "free" food. https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2019-0493-employer-must-substantiate-necessity-of-employer-provided-meals-for-value-to-be-excluded-from-employee-income-irs-tam-emphasizes https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2019-0493-employer-must-substant...
- pants2 3y ago
  Does this really get reported to the IRS in practice? Most companies provide free coffee and I've never seen that reported to the IRS either.
  - phonon 3y ago
    Snacks have always been okay...from that link-- "Snacks The TAM separately considers whether the value of snacks provided to employees is excludable from income under Section 119. Rather than revisit the business reasons previously analyzed, the TAM relies on Tougher v. Commissioner, 441 F.2d 1148 (9th Cir. 1971), to determine that the snacks are not meals. Accordingly, a snack cannot be a meal furnished for the convenience of the employer. Nevertheless, the TAM does conclude that the value of the snacks is excludable from employee income as de minimis fringe benefits under Section 132(e)(1)."

ajacksified 3y ago

Same thing with hardware in every company I've worked at. Really, "Sr. Staff Engineer Alice" makes $300k/yr, but only gets a budget of $2k for a laptop that's meant to last four years and is their primary tool? How does this make sense?

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
I see devs that are paid a fortune and they use these silly 20 or 24 inch monitors and I don't understand it. A large 4K monitor is a very cheap and really increases productivity. Give them 3 ffs. Meanwhile, there is an accountant somewhere that thinks he's a genius for keeping the hardware budget in check.

skirmish 3y ago

Another good one: my company periodically forces all software engineers to wipe their workstations / laptops and re-install everything from scratch. I have one such wipe coming up, with no way to avoid it, will probably spend 3-4 days just setting up all software again and do no work.