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> But man, as a business owner in EU, this would just make me not want to build an AI startup in EU If a Chinese company with massive government contracts had

by janice1999 3y ago

> But man, as a business owner in EU, this would just make me not want to build an AI startup in EU If a Chinese company with massive government contracts had invested in OpenAI there is no way that the US would not start an investigation.

wallaBBB 3y ago
You think there even would be an investigation/probe into it? Perhaps a really quick one.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> If a Chinese company with massive government contracts had invested in OpenAI there is no way that the US would not start an investigation Sure, but if a European did we wouldn't. So if you start in America, you can access both continents. If you start in China, you can access Europe and Asia. If you start in Europe, you're limited to one. Granted, this is just a proble. But if it amounts to something, it's an asymmetrically chilling move.
- anonylizard 3y ago
  Pretty sure the US explicitly restricts investment in Chinese AI companies now. The US has learnt its lesson investing in China too.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > the US explicitly restricts investment in Chinese AI companies now Congress seeks to curb it but doesn't in practice. That may change. In any case, I was discounting access to American capital market for Chinese AI start-ups: they can tap both China and Europe.
throwaway55671 3y ago
Microsoft has massive government contracts in literally every EU country. US is an ally, not antagonist/enemy.
- piaste 3y ago
  "There are no permanent friends, only permanent interests."
- chmod775 3y ago
  Didn't US/EU have a trade war just ~3 years ago?
  - kergonath 3y ago
    They’ve had trade wars for much of recent history, but don’t read too much into that. Allies can still disagree on matters of trade.
    - chmod775 3y ago
      Maybe ally/enemy is a spectrum and also not one-dimensional. "Not ally" does not imply enemy and my military ally might not be my ally in trade. Also most US allies have learned to not read too much into the word ally. The US makes for a rather fickle and sometimes insidious partner. Trust in the US on military matters is rather high (despite some recent blunders), but in every other arena it is basically nonexistent. I don't see why the US should receive any less scrutiny than China in this instance.
      - kergonath 3y ago
        I entirely agree. I’d add that as long as NATO was uncontroversial in American politics, allies could count on being able to work with each successive president, regardless of party, which definitely did help. There was the occasional bickering (like the French being vocal in their opposition to the war in Iraq), but nothing that would compromise the alliance in the long run. Things like “friendly” intelligence gathering, or indeed trade disputes, never stopped, but did not preclude cooperation at the highest levels. In that context, it’s fine to argue every now and then because everyone knows that neither side is likely to escalate things out of control. As you said, it did not affect trust in the fundamentals.
- 3y ago

wallaBBB 3y ago

You think there even would be an investigation/probe into it? Perhaps a really quick one.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> If a Chinese company with massive government contracts had invested in OpenAI there is no way that the US would not start an investigation Sure, but if a European did we wouldn't. So if you start in America, you can access both continents. If you start in China, you can access Europe and Asia. If you start in Europe, you're limited to one. Granted, this is just a proble. But if it amounts to something, it's an asymmetrically chilling move.

anonylizard 3y ago
Pretty sure the US explicitly restricts investment in Chinese AI companies now. The US has learnt its lesson investing in China too.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > the US explicitly restricts investment in Chinese AI companies now Congress seeks to curb it but doesn't in practice. That may change. In any case, I was discounting access to American capital market for Chinese AI start-ups: they can tap both China and Europe.

throwaway55671 3y ago

Microsoft has massive government contracts in literally every EU country. US is an ally, not antagonist/enemy.

piaste 3y ago
"There are no permanent friends, only permanent interests."
chmod775 3y ago
Didn't US/EU have a trade war just ~3 years ago?
- kergonath 3y ago
  They’ve had trade wars for much of recent history, but don’t read too much into that. Allies can still disagree on matters of trade.
  - chmod775 3y ago
    Maybe ally/enemy is a spectrum and also not one-dimensional. "Not ally" does not imply enemy and my military ally might not be my ally in trade. Also most US allies have learned to not read too much into the word ally. The US makes for a rather fickle and sometimes insidious partner. Trust in the US on military matters is rather high (despite some recent blunders), but in every other arena it is basically nonexistent. I don't see why the US should receive any less scrutiny than China in this instance.
    - kergonath 3y ago
      I entirely agree. I’d add that as long as NATO was uncontroversial in American politics, allies could count on being able to work with each successive president, regardless of party, which definitely did help. There was the occasional bickering (like the French being vocal in their opposition to the war in Iraq), but nothing that would compromise the alliance in the long run. Things like “friendly” intelligence gathering, or indeed trade disputes, never stopped, but did not preclude cooperation at the highest levels. In that context, it’s fine to argue every now and then because everyone knows that neither side is likely to escalate things out of control. As you said, it did not affect trust in the fundamentals.
3y ago