4 ms·

Nothing new here, this is what happens when politicians make their work easier by making everyone else's harder, case in point in Argentina because politicians

by JVIDEL 14y ago

Nothing new here, this is what happens when politicians make their work easier by making everyone else's harder, case in point in Argentina because politicians there can't bother to fix the deficit they raised taxation to almost 60% across the board. Result? everyone from rich to poor evades taxes and the grey market is over half the economy, with (some say) 2/3 of unskilled workers being paid cash-in-hand, no questions asked. Because customs charge a similar 60% on imports plus a 27% VAT on top almost everybody in the country buys stuff from smugglers, from shoes and clothes to computers and even cars. Piracy and counterfeiting are so out of control that some companies are shutting down, leaving people on the street. So at the end that country losses more money and has an even bigger deficit than if they had much lower taxes, why? because evading taxes is hard and risky, you are not going to bother doing it if it barely improves your numbers. But at 60% taxation you might go broke if you don't evade! see the problem? Lots of policies are ridiculous, but others are far beyond that: unrealistic, you simply can't ask that much and expect the economy to keep going. EDIT: if you want to know more about the anti-business craziness going on in Argentina read this http://bit.ly/lUbWOo http://bit.ly/lUbWOo

tomp 14y ago
However, it is to be noted, that high taxation is not the problem per se - in Scandinavic countries, taxation is also high, but the citizens get much in return: free healthcare, free (and very good) schools, some serious social security benefits, etc...
- wlievens 14y ago
  It's probably more about fair taxation: knowing that you get something back and your neighbouring isn't paying less though making more.
  - CWuestefeld 14y ago
    knowing that you get something back and your neighbouring isn't paying less though making more I think you've misunderstood the nature of the debate. Nobody is claiming that people making more are paying less, at least not significantly so. The complaint is that some people who are making more have paid a lower overall rate.
    - wlievens 14y ago
      That's not what I meant. I simply meant to explain what I meant by fair: the same laws apply to everyone, i.e. corruption and tax avoidance are to be minimal, if people are to accept taxation.
- JVIDEL 14y ago
  I know, but people who live there say that because of the deficit public services have suffered many cuts and are far worse than before. Add rampant inflation to that and it gets uglier, even aspirins are expensive over there.
zackmorris 14y ago
Anti-business is another way of saying pro-labor. The original intent of these laws was the same as in Germany, to have labor fairly represented in companies. In Germany, it's law that 50% of a corporate board must be made up of labor. That's one of the reasons why their companies are doing so well right now, because they don't make the stupid decisions that American companies make when management is so far removed from day-to-day operations. Where we would fire 20% of a company during a recession, the German government gives the workers a day off a week and pays their unemployment, so that the people have money in their pockets to keep the economy going. So the real problem here is that the French government didn't anticipate conglomerates of 49 person companies skirting the laws. The reason unemployment is high is DUE to these 49 person companies, not in spite of them. If they had 50 or more people, then labor would vote to hire more workers, which is precisely what management doesn't want. They are just like management here, they want less labor, working longer/harder hours for less pay. For anyone reading this, I highly recommend watching Thom Hartmann on FSTV for 2 weeks (http://www.thomhartmann.com http://www.thomhartmann.com), and you'll never look at civics/history/politics the same way again. There is a whole other side to these issues that we just don't get exposed to here in the US. For as much as hackers complain about being marginalized in the workplace, it worries me that we seem to be so misinformed about the root causes of it and how to solve it.
- JVIDEL 14y ago
  Don't try to oversimplify this: Germans have some of the most skilled workforce in the world, and their small companies are very engineering heavy, unlike most French startups. There's a long way between that, the American system and the French system, and the Germans have only just become competitive after being almost stagnated for over 20 years, but of course you don't care about this little fact just the part that benefits your point. And if success is everything then you must be totally cool with the Chinese work-till-you-drop way since it works even better than the German option. However I don't, and unlike you I see overderegulation and overregulation in the same way: they are both bad for business because each benefits one side and one side ONLY. You need balance, get it?

by JVIDEL 14y ago

tomp 14y ago

However, it is to be noted, that high taxation is not the problem per se - in Scandinavic countries, taxation is also high, but the citizens get much in return: free healthcare, free (and very good) schools, some serious social security benefits, etc...

wlievens 14y ago
It's probably more about fair taxation: knowing that you get something back and your neighbouring isn't paying less though making more.
- CWuestefeld 14y ago
  knowing that you get something back and your neighbouring isn't paying less though making more I think you've misunderstood the nature of the debate. Nobody is claiming that people making more are paying less, at least not significantly so. The complaint is that some people who are making more have paid a lower overall rate.
  - wlievens 14y ago
    That's not what I meant. I simply meant to explain what I meant by fair: the same laws apply to everyone, i.e. corruption and tax avoidance are to be minimal, if people are to accept taxation.
JVIDEL 14y ago
I know, but people who live there say that because of the deficit public services have suffered many cuts and are far worse than before. Add rampant inflation to that and it gets uglier, even aspirins are expensive over there.

zackmorris 14y ago

Anti-business is another way of saying pro-labor. The original intent of these laws was the same as in Germany, to have labor fairly represented in companies. In Germany, it's law that 50% of a corporate board must be made up of labor. That's one of the reasons why their companies are doing so well right now, because they don't make the stupid decisions that American companies make when management is so far removed from day-to-day operations. Where we would fire 20% of a company during a recession, the German government gives the workers a day off a week and pays their unemployment, so that the people have money in their pockets to keep the economy going. So the real problem here is that the French government didn't anticipate conglomerates of 49 person companies skirting the laws. The reason unemployment is high is DUE to these 49 person companies, not in spite of them. If they had 50 or more people, then labor would vote to hire more workers, which is precisely what management doesn't want. They are just like management here, they want less labor, working longer/harder hours for less pay. For anyone reading this, I highly recommend watching Thom Hartmann on FSTV for 2 weeks (http://www.thomhartmann.com http://www.thomhartmann.com), and you'll never look at civics/history/politics the same way again. There is a whole other side to these issues that we just don't get exposed to here in the US. For as much as hackers complain about being marginalized in the workplace, it worries me that we seem to be so misinformed about the root causes of it and how to solve it.

JVIDEL 14y ago
Don't try to oversimplify this: Germans have some of the most skilled workforce in the world, and their small companies are very engineering heavy, unlike most French startups. There's a long way between that, the American system and the French system, and the Germans have only just become competitive after being almost stagnated for over 20 years, but of course you don't care about this little fact just the part that benefits your point. And if success is everything then you must be totally cool with the Chinese work-till-you-drop way since it works even better than the German option. However I don't, and unlike you I see overderegulation and overregulation in the same way: they are both bad for business because each benefits one side and one side ONLY. You need balance, get it?