5 ms·

Please don't post 3 separate root comments replying to the same story, making it look like there's a lot of people agreeing with you when there are not. Instea

by swombat 14y ago

Please don't post 3 separate root comments replying to the same story, making it look like there's a lot of people agreeing with you when there are not. Instead, edit your comment to add updates.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
His three comments address three separate points. If he put all 3 points into the same comment, then it would make the subsequent reply thread much more difficult to follow.
- swombat 14y ago
  They all have the same faintly fanatical tinge of opposition to whatever specific point the article might be trying to say, while disregarding the overall message.
  - briandon 14y ago
    No, you are mistaken again. I am quite clear on the overall message of the article. I think you get the point of it as well but you're intelligent enough to not bother trying to defend the indefensible, so you complain about me and ad-hominem me as a fanatic. The gist of the article is that many French business owners are willfully weaseling out of meeting their social obligations as set forth in the laws of the society in which they live and run their businesses. There's really no way to put a pretty face on that. It is what it is. It's explicitly stated in the article that the people in question are keeping the headcounts at their enterprises artificially low by starting multiple 49-person companies and, in other cases, by farming out the low-skilled bits of their process to countries with much lower wages and much weaker worker protections specifically because of wage and workplace rule differences. The best justifications that the businesspeople quoted in the article can come up with is that they don't want to have to see their workers' reps every week, that it's a pain to ensure that their HR people are aware of periodic changes in social security witholding rates, and the like. They are eerily silent about profit-sharing, which is one of the responsibilities that they are evading, and evidently none of them had the stomach to try to explain why it would be a good thing for society for them to be able to suddenly lay off large numbers of employees without having to provide any sort of justification.
    - swombat 14y ago
      My view is I would not start a business in France in a thousand years (I'm swiss and have a house in France) because of the legislation and generally disgusting attitude that french people have towards their employers. Work is not a right, it's a privilege. Moreover, it doesn't exist in a vacuum. We live in a globalised world where if you're not competitive on the world scale, you're dead or dying. Laws that severely constrain firing make french companies uncompetitive. I recall a news story about an entrepreneur who had to lay off 25 of his 125 employees because there wasn't enough revenue. As someone who has laid off people before, I can guarantee you that he sweated blood before coming to this decision. So what did his lovely remaining employee do in response? They went on strike. My reaction to this would be: "Oh really? Then I'll shut down the business and move to another country." You're a fucking fanatic. That's why you've been downvoted all over this thread. Grow up and learn that the socialist-fanatic point of view is not the only one (not even in France).
      - briandon 14y ago
        This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Judging by your posting history and your attacks in this thread you are, at the very best, an ill-mannered fanatical libertarian type and possibly suffering from emotional/psychological problems. I'm someone who currently lives in the sort of society that I suspect you would build given a chance ... whereas you seem to live in the UK and, as you mention, have a residence in France and Swiss citizenship. Better yet, I live on the very edge of the developed world smack dab next to one of the places where dangerous and low-skilled, low-wage work gets done in your "globalized world". I also own and run a business that employs people and I manage to do it without behaving like a 19th-century robber baron or whining about not being able to treat everyone around me like Bob Cratchit or some other poor, downtrodden SOB in a Dickens novel. To the extent that I have been down-voted, it's because HN posters skew to a younger, less-life-experienced demographic ... or self-deluded wannabe tycoons like yourself -- who don't see the idiocy in lecturing someone with many years of experience of having their boots on the ground in a near-laissez-faire environment in the developing world from a comfortable perch in a developed economy where the negative effects of your sociopathic tendencies are at least somewhat restrained. At any rate, I appreciate the few moments of entertainment that your mouth frothing has given me.
briandon 14y ago
My username is clearly attached to each comment, so your complaint has no merit.

by swombat 14y ago

Please don't post 3 separate root comments replying to the same story, making it look like there's a lot of people agreeing with you when there are not. Instead, edit your comment to add updates.

bryanlarsen 14y ago

His three comments address three separate points. If he put all 3 points into the same comment, then it would make the subsequent reply thread much more difficult to follow.

swombat 14y ago
They all have the same faintly fanatical tinge of opposition to whatever specific point the article might be trying to say, while disregarding the overall message.
- briandon 14y ago
  No, you are mistaken again. I am quite clear on the overall message of the article. I think you get the point of it as well but you're intelligent enough to not bother trying to defend the indefensible, so you complain about me and ad-hominem me as a fanatic. The gist of the article is that many French business owners are willfully weaseling out of meeting their social obligations as set forth in the laws of the society in which they live and run their businesses. There's really no way to put a pretty face on that. It is what it is. It's explicitly stated in the article that the people in question are keeping the headcounts at their enterprises artificially low by starting multiple 49-person companies and, in other cases, by farming out the low-skilled bits of their process to countries with much lower wages and much weaker worker protections specifically because of wage and workplace rule differences. The best justifications that the businesspeople quoted in the article can come up with is that they don't want to have to see their workers' reps every week, that it's a pain to ensure that their HR people are aware of periodic changes in social security witholding rates, and the like. They are eerily silent about profit-sharing, which is one of the responsibilities that they are evading, and evidently none of them had the stomach to try to explain why it would be a good thing for society for them to be able to suddenly lay off large numbers of employees without having to provide any sort of justification.
  - swombat 14y ago
    My view is I would not start a business in France in a thousand years (I'm swiss and have a house in France) because of the legislation and generally disgusting attitude that french people have towards their employers. Work is not a right, it's a privilege. Moreover, it doesn't exist in a vacuum. We live in a globalised world where if you're not competitive on the world scale, you're dead or dying. Laws that severely constrain firing make french companies uncompetitive. I recall a news story about an entrepreneur who had to lay off 25 of his 125 employees because there wasn't enough revenue. As someone who has laid off people before, I can guarantee you that he sweated blood before coming to this decision. So what did his lovely remaining employee do in response? They went on strike. My reaction to this would be: "Oh really? Then I'll shut down the business and move to another country." You're a fucking fanatic. That's why you've been downvoted all over this thread. Grow up and learn that the socialist-fanatic point of view is not the only one (not even in France).
    - briandon 14y ago
      This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Judging by your posting history and your attacks in this thread you are, at the very best, an ill-mannered fanatical libertarian type and possibly suffering from emotional/psychological problems. I'm someone who currently lives in the sort of society that I suspect you would build given a chance ... whereas you seem to live in the UK and, as you mention, have a residence in France and Swiss citizenship. Better yet, I live on the very edge of the developed world smack dab next to one of the places where dangerous and low-skilled, low-wage work gets done in your "globalized world". I also own and run a business that employs people and I manage to do it without behaving like a 19th-century robber baron or whining about not being able to treat everyone around me like Bob Cratchit or some other poor, downtrodden SOB in a Dickens novel. To the extent that I have been down-voted, it's because HN posters skew to a younger, less-life-experienced demographic ... or self-deluded wannabe tycoons like yourself -- who don't see the idiocy in lecturing someone with many years of experience of having their boots on the ground in a near-laissez-faire environment in the developing world from a comfortable perch in a developed economy where the negative effects of your sociopathic tendencies are at least somewhat restrained. At any rate, I appreciate the few moments of entertainment that your mouth frothing has given me.

briandon 14y ago

My username is clearly attached to each comment, so your complaint has no merit.