6 ms·

So.. as an individual living in the northen part of Europe, can I expect a nice summer then?

CalRobert 3y ago
That depends on your definition of "nice". I'd prefer not to break 40C myself. The buildings here are absolute crap for dealing with heat too (eaves? shade? airflow? Who the hell needs that?)
- defrost 3y ago
  We've been breaking 40 C numerous times these past two months... look for better buildings if you can. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-25/making-your-home-resilient-to-heatwaves-and-severe-storms/12880698 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-25/making-your-h... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-15/home-design-changing-for-better-future-as-climate-warms/103442692 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-15/home-design-changing-...
  - ido 3y ago
    Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. It’s not a matter of looking, that’s just not how people build here (just like people in Israel don’t build building that handle cold weather well).
    - mewpmewp2 3y ago
      They need to start building differently.
      - icoder 3y ago
        This is already happening, but I don't know to what extent (especially over multiple countries), but we moved into our extremely well insulated house (thing 3 layers of glass) in the Netherlands mid 2020. Heating happens using a ground source + heat pump, cooling using just the ground source and passive pumping, ventilation is centralised and uses heat exchange. During some 30/35+ waves of the last few summers we kept it below 23 degrees Celsius inside, even over many days of heat.
        CalRobert 3y ago
        How do you handle light? I'm in Hilversum and the houses are just ovens. Until recently I lived in Ireland and people looked at me like I had 3 heads when I talked about air tightness, deciduous trees in front of south facing windows, and eaves/awnings - the idea that you might not _want_ as much light as possible baffled the dinosaurs in planning. I hope the Netherlands is better but I still see an awful lot of windows with no protection from sunlight. Eaves are perfect (and deciduous trees) because you can angle them such that you get light in the winter but shade in the mid-day summer sun.
      - jeltz 3y ago
        And we do. The issue is all old homes that need to have AC installed.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Sure. All the same, with interesting times ahead it'll be a case of choosing to suffer through, changing locations, or rebuilding | renovating to adapt. All the more interesting as the northern European climate for the next decade isn't exactly locked in and known for certain yet.
    - diggan 3y ago
      > Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. Luckily, because of the cold, buildings are well insulated so at least they can seek some cover inside. Granted, it won't reach 40C anyways, but at least houses are built properly over there so it helps a little.
      - piva00 3y ago
        It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Back in July 2018 we had a month of hot weather in Stockholm (you probably experience it, saw in another comment you moved Sweden -> Spain), temperatures reaching 30C for multiple days and "tropical nights" (air temperature >= 20C during the night), even as a native Brazilian I could not bear how hot my house got, it wouldn't cool down during the night and the next day it'd heat up again. It got to a point where I couldn't sleep and there was a shortage of fans for sale, super basic fans were going for 100€ in the 2nd hand market.
        diggan 3y ago
        > It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Goes both ways, doesn't it? Lots of houses in Sweden have basement/cellar floors as well, and if you have good insulation, you manage to keep more of that below-ground coldness around, compared to if air blew freely through the house. At least that was my experience. > you probably experience it Fortunately not, moved away from my home country in 2012 already :)
        jeltz 3y ago
        No, it does work that way. The issue is that without AC our buildings will eventually get so warm insulation does not help. Buildings would not cool down anyway during night in Stockholm due to the very short nights and Stockholm bring by a lake, we do not have cool nights. The only solution is insulation plus AC.
        hef19898 3y ago
    - ponector 3y ago
      I've spent few months in Andalusia and can't say their apartment buildings are better suited for heat than one I live in Poland. Yes there are more curtains and AC, but it is not related to the building, you can have them in northern apartment too.
      - diggan 3y ago
        As a person who moved to Spain (Barcelona though) from Sweden, I agree. Houses here have basically no insulation what so ever, unless they're built recently. During the summer, it's almost impossible to escape the heat unless you have AC inside. Meanwhile, in Sweden you can usually just enter any house and can be sure that there is at least is a temperature difference compared to outside just because of way better insulation.
      - ido 3y ago
        At least in Israel apartments are much better ventilated than in Germany - there are usually multiple directions with windows (e.g. windows on 3 air directions, so you can open all the windows and get good circulation), a lot of apartments in Germany have only 1-2 air directions and the rooms are not setup for good air circulation. Also windows tend to be much bigger and open up more conveniently in Israel (in Germany because windows open inwards if you have anything on the way you can’t easily open the window, you have to first remove everything from the window sill - in Israel windows often slide or open outwards). It’s subtle differences and when its super hot (40c) you need AC anyway, but upper 20s/low 30s still feel ok in a well ventilated apartment and not so much with one built for keeping the cold out (like in Germany). It’s also much more common to have functional window shades (like these http://alumgo.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/6/7/14671210/7800745_orig.jpg http://alumgo.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/6/7/14671210/7800745_or...) in Israel than in Germany. In homes I’ve mostly only seen the cheap kind of shades or curtains in Germany, and these aren’t very good.
    - ardaoweo 3y ago
      At least in Finland modern apartment blocks are really the worst, much worse than 100 year old wooden houses. Usually they are built to maximize constructor profits, with bad floorplan that makes that any kind of airflow through the apartment by opening windows impossible. No AC of course, and concrete walls which preserve lots of heat.
- trilbyglens 3y ago
  Shutters and window shades can be added easily enough, and the high-mass of many buildings here gives decent heat inertia to keep things cooler during the day.
  - fl7305 3y ago
    Also, can't you run some heat pumps in reverse and use them as air conditioners? So there might be a natural path to taming the problem as heating systems are replaced for end of life reasons.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - CalRobert 3y ago
      Yes, air source heat pumps (mini or multi split systems) in particular. Unfortunately most houses in northern Europe are obsolete and plumbed for radiators so people tend to opt for systems that heat water instead of upgrading to something that offers cooling as well.
      - fl7305 3y ago
        Can you cool the water to the radiators? Or will that just lead to condensation and mold?
        hef19898 3y ago
        Yes, and yes. That's why every AC unit has a condensor unit thaz dries the air.
- diggan 3y ago
  I don't think you have to worry about it breaking 40C, I don't think that temperature has ever been recorded in for example Sweden. Though, Swedes would still suffer it temperatures reach 30C as it's still above average highs.
  - fl7305 3y ago
    > I don't think you have to worry about it breaking 40C, I don't think that temperature has ever been recorded in for example Sweden. No, it seems you're right. The highest temperature ever recorded was 38C in 1933. It hasn't been broken since then.
    - ranguna 3y ago
      Get your fireworks ready, we might be in for a surprise soon given the weather trend.
ido 3y ago
Here in Berlin I’d much rather the traditional 25c summers over the 35c+ summer of ’22 (fortunately ’23 summer was relatively mild and rainy). I do appreciate the mild winters tho!
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  There could still be a lot of improvement in both summers and winters in more north of Europe. And hopefully we could nuke something in some way that would balance out the sun so that summers wouldn't be constant light and winters completely dark. It is just depressing. It is unclear what our ancestors were thinking moving here. Probably forced.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - hef19898 3y ago
      So, following your logic, as a German I have no right to opposse genocide? Strange logic, to say the least. And using some climate engineering fantasy from a book as a basis for discusion, really?
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        [flagged]
        hef19898 3y ago
        Pay someone to not kill people they hate? What makes you think this works? By the way, there is different way to read your Russian pro-verb. Talking about Russia, how much money do you think Putin wants ij exchange for not trying to conquer Ukraine? Or Nethanyahu and his rihht wing nutjob allies to not deplace every Palistinian? You have a ballpark amount at least?
sebtron 3y ago
If by "nice" you mean the usual 20°C most of the time but with regular heat waves of 35-40°C from May to September, sure!
- alvarlagerlof 3y ago
  What do you consider to be north?

That depends on your definition of "nice". I'd prefer not to break 40C myself. The buildings here are absolute crap for dealing with heat too (eaves? shade? airflow? Who the hell needs that?)

defrost 3y ago
We've been breaking 40 C numerous times these past two months... look for better buildings if you can. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-25/making-your-home-resilient-to-heatwaves-and-severe-storms/12880698 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-01-25/making-your-h... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-15/home-design-changing-for-better-future-as-climate-warms/103442692 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-15/home-design-changing-...
- ido 3y ago
  Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. It’s not a matter of looking, that’s just not how people build here (just like people in Israel don’t build building that handle cold weather well).
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    They need to start building differently.
    - icoder 3y ago
      This is already happening, but I don't know to what extent (especially over multiple countries), but we moved into our extremely well insulated house (thing 3 layers of glass) in the Netherlands mid 2020. Heating happens using a ground source + heat pump, cooling using just the ground source and passive pumping, ventilation is centralised and uses heat exchange. During some 30/35+ waves of the last few summers we kept it below 23 degrees Celsius inside, even over many days of heat.
      - CalRobert 3y ago
        How do you handle light? I'm in Hilversum and the houses are just ovens. Until recently I lived in Ireland and people looked at me like I had 3 heads when I talked about air tightness, deciduous trees in front of south facing windows, and eaves/awnings - the idea that you might not _want_ as much light as possible baffled the dinosaurs in planning. I hope the Netherlands is better but I still see an awful lot of windows with no protection from sunlight. Eaves are perfect (and deciduous trees) because you can angle them such that you get light in the winter but shade in the mid-day summer sun.
    - jeltz 3y ago
      And we do. The issue is all old homes that need to have AC installed.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Sure. All the same, with interesting times ahead it'll be a case of choosing to suffer through, changing locations, or rebuilding | renovating to adapt. All the more interesting as the northern European climate for the next decade isn't exactly locked in and known for certain yet.
  - diggan 3y ago
    > Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. Luckily, because of the cold, buildings are well insulated so at least they can seek some cover inside. Granted, it won't reach 40C anyways, but at least houses are built properly over there so it helps a little.
    - piva00 3y ago
      It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Back in July 2018 we had a month of hot weather in Stockholm (you probably experience it, saw in another comment you moved Sweden -> Spain), temperatures reaching 30C for multiple days and "tropical nights" (air temperature >= 20C during the night), even as a native Brazilian I could not bear how hot my house got, it wouldn't cool down during the night and the next day it'd heat up again. It got to a point where I couldn't sleep and there was a shortage of fans for sale, super basic fans were going for 100€ in the 2nd hand market.
      - diggan 3y ago
        > It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Goes both ways, doesn't it? Lots of houses in Sweden have basement/cellar floors as well, and if you have good insulation, you manage to keep more of that below-ground coldness around, compared to if air blew freely through the house. At least that was my experience. > you probably experience it Fortunately not, moved away from my home country in 2012 already :)
      - jeltz 3y ago
        No, it does work that way. The issue is that without AC our buildings will eventually get so warm insulation does not help. Buildings would not cool down anyway during night in Stockholm due to the very short nights and Stockholm bring by a lake, we do not have cool nights. The only solution is insulation plus AC.
        hef19898 3y ago
  - ponector 3y ago
    I've spent few months in Andalusia and can't say their apartment buildings are better suited for heat than one I live in Poland. Yes there are more curtains and AC, but it is not related to the building, you can have them in northern apartment too.
    - diggan 3y ago
      As a person who moved to Spain (Barcelona though) from Sweden, I agree. Houses here have basically no insulation what so ever, unless they're built recently. During the summer, it's almost impossible to escape the heat unless you have AC inside. Meanwhile, in Sweden you can usually just enter any house and can be sure that there is at least is a temperature difference compared to outside just because of way better insulation.
    - ido 3y ago
      At least in Israel apartments are much better ventilated than in Germany - there are usually multiple directions with windows (e.g. windows on 3 air directions, so you can open all the windows and get good circulation), a lot of apartments in Germany have only 1-2 air directions and the rooms are not setup for good air circulation. Also windows tend to be much bigger and open up more conveniently in Israel (in Germany because windows open inwards if you have anything on the way you can’t easily open the window, you have to first remove everything from the window sill - in Israel windows often slide or open outwards). It’s subtle differences and when its super hot (40c) you need AC anyway, but upper 20s/low 30s still feel ok in a well ventilated apartment and not so much with one built for keeping the cold out (like in Germany). It’s also much more common to have functional window shades (like these http://alumgo.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/6/7/14671210/7800745_orig.jpg http://alumgo.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/6/7/14671210/7800745_or...) in Israel than in Germany. In homes I’ve mostly only seen the cheap kind of shades or curtains in Germany, and these aren’t very good.
  - ardaoweo 3y ago
    At least in Finland modern apartment blocks are really the worst, much worse than 100 year old wooden houses. Usually they are built to maximize constructor profits, with bad floorplan that makes that any kind of airflow through the apartment by opening windows impossible. No AC of course, and concrete walls which preserve lots of heat.
trilbyglens 3y ago
Shutters and window shades can be added easily enough, and the high-mass of many buildings here gives decent heat inertia to keep things cooler during the day.
- fl7305 3y ago
  Also, can't you run some heat pumps in reverse and use them as air conditioners? So there might be a natural path to taming the problem as heating systems are replaced for end of life reasons.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Yes, air source heat pumps (mini or multi split systems) in particular. Unfortunately most houses in northern Europe are obsolete and plumbed for radiators so people tend to opt for systems that heat water instead of upgrading to something that offers cooling as well.
    - fl7305 3y ago
      Can you cool the water to the radiators? Or will that just lead to condensation and mold?
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Yes, and yes. That's why every AC unit has a condensor unit thaz dries the air.
diggan 3y ago
I don't think you have to worry about it breaking 40C, I don't think that temperature has ever been recorded in for example Sweden. Though, Swedes would still suffer it temperatures reach 30C as it's still above average highs.
- fl7305 3y ago
  > I don't think you have to worry about it breaking 40C, I don't think that temperature has ever been recorded in for example Sweden. No, it seems you're right. The highest temperature ever recorded was 38C in 1933. It hasn't been broken since then.
  - ranguna 3y ago
    Get your fireworks ready, we might be in for a surprise soon given the weather trend.

ido 3y ago

Here in Berlin I’d much rather the traditional 25c summers over the 35c+ summer of ’22 (fortunately ’23 summer was relatively mild and rainy). I do appreciate the mild winters tho!

mewpmewp2 3y ago
There could still be a lot of improvement in both summers and winters in more north of Europe. And hopefully we could nuke something in some way that would balance out the sun so that summers wouldn't be constant light and winters completely dark. It is just depressing. It is unclear what our ancestors were thinking moving here. Probably forced.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hef19898 3y ago
    So, following your logic, as a German I have no right to opposse genocide? Strange logic, to say the least. And using some climate engineering fantasy from a book as a basis for discusion, really?
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Pay someone to not kill people they hate? What makes you think this works? By the way, there is different way to read your Russian pro-verb. Talking about Russia, how much money do you think Putin wants ij exchange for not trying to conquer Ukraine? Or Nethanyahu and his rihht wing nutjob allies to not deplace every Palistinian? You have a ballpark amount at least?

sebtron 3y ago

If by "nice" you mean the usual 20°C most of the time but with regular heat waves of 35-40°C from May to September, sure!

alvarlagerlof 3y ago
What do you consider to be north?