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A couple of ways for a new "browser" to leapfrog: 1/ As guest in current browsers acting as hosts, for the zero-install ubiquity of the Web. This would require

A couple of ways for a new "browser" to leapfrog: 1/ As guest in current browsers acting as hosts, for the zero-install ubiquity of the Web. This would require WebGPU, Wasm, fast JS<=>Wasm calls, and installable PWAs at least. Gatekeepers notably Apple can and will hinder. Once established, this new hosted app could be nativized to drop the browser dependency. 2/ As new obligate not facultative browser-like app in new device, e.g., XR eyewear. The device would have to take off at very large scale, and its maker(s) would want to do things not easily done via (1). The extant Web would be mapped onto in-world surfaces but the new device and its content stack would support things that go way beyond evolutionary improvements to the Web. I used to think (2) might happen with Oculus being acquired by Meta, or by Apple eyewear, but I'm less optimistic now. The Big Tech players, especially Apple, can build nice h/w, but it won't get to scale quickly enough to subsume the Web.

TimTheTinker 3y ago
> As guest in current browsers acting as hosts, for the zero-install ubiquity of the Web. That sounds promising, except I don't see how the affordance of URLs could be duplicated in that context without introducing competing janky proxies—e.g. https://new-web.com/[insert-new-url-type-here] https://new-web.com/[insert-new-url-type-here] Or were you thinking that installable PWAs would obviate that? I wonder if a wasm app framework ("a new way to build web apps without HTML/CSS/JS") would be viable, as it could work seamlessly with existing URLs and people could host apps built in it anywhere. If that gains traction, introduce a new, "cleaner" build target (sans HTML/CSS/JS linking) and a "faster, more lightweight" client for built apps. Have it use a new URL scheme to match - maybe wasm://. Web-targeted wasm app builds could even check if the URL scheme is available, and switch to it at runtime if it is. Kind of like how web apps sometimes open the ios app if it's installed. From there, expand into a platform for competing frameworks to target...
- TimTheTinker 3y ago
  Endgame here is browsers run wasm:// applications (not a bad outcome), new client dies, and we still have web browsers. But maybe we get a more lightweight Electron.
  - BrendanEich 3y ago
    At high enough altitude, doesn't matter, but I was counting on PWAs. So Apple bad moves in Europe matter.
    - TimTheTinker 3y ago
      Some news dropped today, looks like PWAs on iOS in the EU are coming back: https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/01/apple-reverses-course-on-death-of-progressive-web-apps-in-eu https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/01/apple-reverses-co...
  - BrendanEich 3y ago
    One observation re: Electron: it was a security nightmare (no sandboxing! then lots of script injection / prototype pollution attack surface), so I think the better path to a host runtime is an extended browser. It has a lot of hard-fought security and privacy defense built in.

TimTheTinker 3y ago

> As guest in current browsers acting as hosts, for the zero-install ubiquity of the Web. That sounds promising, except I don't see how the affordance of URLs could be duplicated in that context without introducing competing janky proxies—e.g. https://new-web.com/[insert-new-url-type-here] https://new-web.com/[insert-new-url-type-here] Or were you thinking that installable PWAs would obviate that? I wonder if a wasm app framework ("a new way to build web apps without HTML/CSS/JS") would be viable, as it could work seamlessly with existing URLs and people could host apps built in it anywhere. If that gains traction, introduce a new, "cleaner" build target (sans HTML/CSS/JS linking) and a "faster, more lightweight" client for built apps. Have it use a new URL scheme to match - maybe wasm://. Web-targeted wasm app builds could even check if the URL scheme is available, and switch to it at runtime if it is. Kind of like how web apps sometimes open the ios app if it's installed. From there, expand into a platform for competing frameworks to target...

TimTheTinker 3y ago
Endgame here is browsers run wasm:// applications (not a bad outcome), new client dies, and we still have web browsers. But maybe we get a more lightweight Electron.
- BrendanEich 3y ago
  At high enough altitude, doesn't matter, but I was counting on PWAs. So Apple bad moves in Europe matter.
  - TimTheTinker 3y ago
    Some news dropped today, looks like PWAs on iOS in the EU are coming back: https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/01/apple-reverses-course-on-death-of-progressive-web-apps-in-eu https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/01/apple-reverses-co...
- BrendanEich 3y ago
  One observation re: Electron: it was a security nightmare (no sandboxing! then lots of script injection / prototype pollution attack surface), so I think the better path to a host runtime is an extended browser. It has a lot of hard-fought security and privacy defense built in.