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I get that there exist people who hate the noise and shadows of wind turbines. I've even seen some rare cases where the complaints were warranted since it liter

by yesco 3y ago

I get that there exist people who hate the noise and shadows of wind turbines. I've even seen some rare cases where the complaints were warranted since it literally caused a strobing effect in their houses throughout the day. I think a ban is a massive overreaction to these complaints, but I get it. I don't get the solar bans, can someone please explain those to me? Even in the cases where it's just a land usage limit, why would anyone even ask for that? There is no way they banned it for no reason, there has to be something that motivated it right? But what about solar power could possibly have bothered anyone?? I'm not expecting Oil companies to be influencing county level politics here so there clearly is a nation wide pattern of individuals proposing these bans for some reason I'm not seeing.

NikkiA 3y ago
You know what really causes a strobing effect in my living space? Road Traffic. Day AND night.
- yesco 3y ago
  Unless you moved in knowing this would happen, I would largely agree that complaints about lights beaming into your house are warranted, and deserving of some attention. Like how it's not unreasonable for the government to put up sound barriers around new highways passing by neighborhoods. I would not agree that the correct remediation is banning cars on the other hand... Meanwhile solar isn't much different than having a bunch of boxes in your backyard, why would people care about this kind of thing? I get that the nitpickers are always gonna pick things, but what exactly are they picking when it comes to solar? Based on the replies so far, it's mostly due to local superstition, which is interesting in it's own way I suppose... but I guess it's more likely the boring answer perrygeo mentioned: that communities simply fear new developments in general, and banning solar is simply a means to an end.
silverquiet 3y ago
It's because liberals like green energy and so conservatives must oppose it. It's an identity thing essentially; no more complicated than that. I've got a co-worker who lives in Bandera, TX where this is currently a conflict.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  Same with things like IVF. No sane person should be against IVF. And yet here we are.
- yesco 3y ago
  There are plenty of ways to annoy opposition without looking like an idiot, while these kinds of assumptions are convenient, they are usually wrong in my experience (or just a small piece of the picture). Especially in this case where a lot of those bans appear to be in blue counties...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    All I can really speak to is the one I have experience with via my co-worker. He'll tell you that he gets on pretty well with his neighbors but he'd also tell you that they have many other ways of looking like idiots. For instance, they voted in a pussy-grabbing reality TV star for president.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Rich democrats are the same as Republicans except they don't agree on social issues. They want all the tax cuts + the benefits of wealthy living and the poors can have the wind farm eyesores. Same way poorer city centers subsidize the wealthy suburbs.
    - throwaway5959 3y ago
      Poor people live near highways and would benefit from electrification with less air pollution, using that wind energy to provide cheap electricity for their cars (which will get significantly cheaper from here).
      - nebula8804 3y ago
        Yes they would but they also get the potential hit to property values that comes from having them nearby. Plus my point was that rich people like their scenic views and they also want the benefits of green energy (so they can act like they care) so whats to do? Place the equipment elsewhere.
breput 3y ago
I can't make this up: "Members of the public in Woodland, North Carolina, expressed their fear and mistrust at the proposal to allow Strata Solar Company to build a solar farm off Highway 258. During the Woodland Town Council meeting, one local man, Bobby Mann, said solar farms would suck up all the energy from the sun and businesses would not go to Woodland, the Roanoke-Chowan News Herald reported. Jane Mann, a retired science teacher, said she was concerned the panels would prevent plants in the area from photosynthesizing, stopping them from growing. Ms Mann said she had seen areas near solar panels where plants are brown and dead because they did not get enough sunlight. She also questioned the high number of cancer deaths in the area, saying no one could tell her solar panels didn't cause cancer." [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-re...
- hulitu 3y ago
  Those are all valid concerns. /s Well, it turns out, John Taylor Gatto was right.
nebula8804 3y ago
Probably identity politics mixed with stupidity. My neighbor is paranoid over excessive radiation. She kept badgering the power company when they switched over to wireless meters. She talks about all the radiation you'd get if you got solar panels. Once they get cheap enough, Im getting them....thats going to be an adventure.
specialist 3y ago
> I'm not expecting Oil companies to be influencing county level politics here... Why not? Because that's exactly what they're doing.
mcbishop 3y ago
If I had to steelman a county's solar ban... Solar production is intermittent / unreliable. And hydrocarbon power plants are the county's backbone.
perrygeo 3y ago
> solar bans Important to note than most of these bans are about large-scale utility level solar installations. We're talking multi-million dollar, multi-decade industrial operations over many acres. Not putting a few PV panels on a roof. It's light industry and has significant environmental impact. Less impact than a coal plant for the same amount of power capacity, but still a non-zero local cost to pay. Why wouldn't you have a say in an industrial facility built next door? It's well within the rights of every local community to do that calculus for themselves and have at least a chance of appeal - otherwise you risk a world where a privileged class of decision makers can literally bulldoze the homes of citizens in the name of "progress". Yes it's happened before (see the history of the US interstate system, power grid, water infrastructure, etc) which is why communities are now leveraging their ban-power instead of getting bulldozed.
- jimmydorry 3y ago
  >Less impact than a coal plant for the same amount of power capacity For the same amount of "power capacity", you are talking about covering an area multiple times bigger in PV panels. The health impact is reduced to zero, but the environmental impact is ball-parks bigger making it a non-zero trade-off.
- singhrac 3y ago
  I am a big renewables fan and there is some truth to this. Utility-scale solar installations are not, today, low-touch operations. You need inverters, often you need a substation with a transformer to e.g. 69 kV. You need to level ground to make them feasible to maintain for decades. You might need a reactive compensator. The comparison to coal is where you lost me, though. The coal plant and corresponding emissions will kill hundreds of people in your county over the years. The other thing to consider is that if your power prices become local (as they can be in Texas), you can really benefit from negative energy prices in the afternoon. I mean the economics are terrific, honestly.
  - perrygeo 3y ago
    Not sure what you're on about re: coal. I literally said solar has "less impact than a coal plant", so we seem to be in agreement.

by yesco 3y ago

NikkiA 3y ago

You know what really causes a strobing effect in my living space? Road Traffic. Day AND night.

yesco 3y ago
Unless you moved in knowing this would happen, I would largely agree that complaints about lights beaming into your house are warranted, and deserving of some attention. Like how it's not unreasonable for the government to put up sound barriers around new highways passing by neighborhoods. I would not agree that the correct remediation is banning cars on the other hand... Meanwhile solar isn't much different than having a bunch of boxes in your backyard, why would people care about this kind of thing? I get that the nitpickers are always gonna pick things, but what exactly are they picking when it comes to solar? Based on the replies so far, it's mostly due to local superstition, which is interesting in it's own way I suppose... but I guess it's more likely the boring answer perrygeo mentioned: that communities simply fear new developments in general, and banning solar is simply a means to an end.

silverquiet 3y ago

It's because liberals like green energy and so conservatives must oppose it. It's an identity thing essentially; no more complicated than that. I've got a co-worker who lives in Bandera, TX where this is currently a conflict.

throwaway5959 3y ago
Same with things like IVF. No sane person should be against IVF. And yet here we are.
yesco 3y ago
There are plenty of ways to annoy opposition without looking like an idiot, while these kinds of assumptions are convenient, they are usually wrong in my experience (or just a small piece of the picture). Especially in this case where a lot of those bans appear to be in blue counties...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- silverquiet 3y ago
  All I can really speak to is the one I have experience with via my co-worker. He'll tell you that he gets on pretty well with his neighbors but he'd also tell you that they have many other ways of looking like idiots. For instance, they voted in a pussy-grabbing reality TV star for president.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Rich democrats are the same as Republicans except they don't agree on social issues. They want all the tax cuts + the benefits of wealthy living and the poors can have the wind farm eyesores. Same way poorer city centers subsidize the wealthy suburbs.
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    Poor people live near highways and would benefit from electrification with less air pollution, using that wind energy to provide cheap electricity for their cars (which will get significantly cheaper from here).
    - nebula8804 3y ago
      Yes they would but they also get the potential hit to property values that comes from having them nearby. Plus my point was that rich people like their scenic views and they also want the benefits of green energy (so they can act like they care) so whats to do? Place the equipment elsewhere.

breput 3y ago

I can't make this up: "Members of the public in Woodland, North Carolina, expressed their fear and mistrust at the proposal to allow Strata Solar Company to build a solar farm off Highway 258. During the Woodland Town Council meeting, one local man, Bobby Mann, said solar farms would suck up all the energy from the sun and businesses would not go to Woodland, the Roanoke-Chowan News Herald reported. Jane Mann, a retired science teacher, said she was concerned the panels would prevent plants in the area from photosynthesizing, stopping them from growing. Ms Mann said she had seen areas near solar panels where plants are brown and dead because they did not get enough sunlight. She also questioned the high number of cancer deaths in the area, saying no one could tell her solar panels didn't cause cancer." [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-re...

hulitu 3y ago
Those are all valid concerns. /s Well, it turns out, John Taylor Gatto was right.

nebula8804 3y ago

Probably identity politics mixed with stupidity. My neighbor is paranoid over excessive radiation. She kept badgering the power company when they switched over to wireless meters. She talks about all the radiation you'd get if you got solar panels. Once they get cheap enough, Im getting them....thats going to be an adventure.

specialist 3y ago

> I'm not expecting Oil companies to be influencing county level politics here... Why not? Because that's exactly what they're doing.

mcbishop 3y ago

If I had to steelman a county's solar ban... Solar production is intermittent / unreliable. And hydrocarbon power plants are the county's backbone.

perrygeo 3y ago

> solar bans Important to note than most of these bans are about large-scale utility level solar installations. We're talking multi-million dollar, multi-decade industrial operations over many acres. Not putting a few PV panels on a roof. It's light industry and has significant environmental impact. Less impact than a coal plant for the same amount of power capacity, but still a non-zero local cost to pay. Why wouldn't you have a say in an industrial facility built next door? It's well within the rights of every local community to do that calculus for themselves and have at least a chance of appeal - otherwise you risk a world where a privileged class of decision makers can literally bulldoze the homes of citizens in the name of "progress". Yes it's happened before (see the history of the US interstate system, power grid, water infrastructure, etc) which is why communities are now leveraging their ban-power instead of getting bulldozed.

jimmydorry 3y ago
>Less impact than a coal plant for the same amount of power capacity For the same amount of "power capacity", you are talking about covering an area multiple times bigger in PV panels. The health impact is reduced to zero, but the environmental impact is ball-parks bigger making it a non-zero trade-off.
singhrac 3y ago
I am a big renewables fan and there is some truth to this. Utility-scale solar installations are not, today, low-touch operations. You need inverters, often you need a substation with a transformer to e.g. 69 kV. You need to level ground to make them feasible to maintain for decades. You might need a reactive compensator. The comparison to coal is where you lost me, though. The coal plant and corresponding emissions will kill hundreds of people in your county over the years. The other thing to consider is that if your power prices become local (as they can be in Texas), you can really benefit from negative energy prices in the afternoon. I mean the economics are terrific, honestly.
- perrygeo 3y ago
  Not sure what you're on about re: coal. I literally said solar has "less impact than a coal plant", so we seem to be in agreement.