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Because it's a less extraordinary claim than the contrary. Attributing intelligence to stuff willy-nilly is why we used to think solar eclipses were caused by s

by bsza 3y ago

Because it's a less extraordinary claim than the contrary. Attributing intelligence to stuff willy-nilly is why we used to think solar eclipses were caused by sun-eating dragons.

famouswaffles 3y ago
Is it so extraordinary? Humans bred with Neanderthals. And it wasn't just a few over-curious, it happened frequently enough there are noticeable traces of their DNA in modern humans despite their Millenia long extinction. This means that were having sex with Neanderthals regularly enough that it's unlikely this was an inherently dangerous activity (i.e try boning a chimpanzee for example). Not just that, they gave birth to their children and then raised them fairly regularly. This resulting offspring didn't just die off either, they mated successfully enough with humans. I just don't see that happening with a species that wasn't in our intelligence band.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- wredue 3y ago
  (Try boning a chimpanzee) Dude. This isn’t evolution. Post Neanderthal humans were not far removed from Neanderthal. As far as evolution goes Populations evolve. It’s not like there was Neanderthal and then big bang boom, modern smart human.
  - famouswaffles 3y ago
    Trying to have sex with a wild Champanzee would be a very dangerous activity to engage in. That's the point of that comment. I know how evolution works.
    - suzzer99 3y ago
      Bonobos would probably be into it. They're horny little suckers.
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  I wonder if/when Neanderthals will start being considered an extinct race of humans instead of a separate species. Under today’s morality it feels pretty weird to draw a species line between us and something so similar to us. I would maybe put money on this happening in our lifetime. Separately, is the same thing happening today? It’s a big cycle. People leave Africa and enter a different climate zone, they are isolated from the root population for a long time, they change, then they eventually reunite with the root population and merge. Rinse and repeat. We might have short circuited this cycle with transportation technology though, which could explain why Neanderthals diverged significantly more as they had more time away.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    It is actually interesting how we separate human race from other animals and their "breeds". Which can interbreed while presenting significant different features or even behaviours. Why would we as a race be above that? Why can't we consider the species that can effectively interbreed with us more in this line of thought than as entirely separate species?
chatmasta 3y ago
The claim that intelligence might not be the primary determinant of a fitness function doesn't seem so extraordinary. What if the neanderthals were a bunch of Einsteins, but they died out because they spent too much time thinking instead of hunting? All we really know is that "we" (that is to say, we homo sapiens) out-competed the neanderthals during some local maxima of the fitness function when the maximum selection pressure was in our favor. It says nothing about our relative intelligence.

by bsza 3y ago

Because it's a less extraordinary claim than the contrary. Attributing intelligence to stuff willy-nilly is why we used to think solar eclipses were caused by sun-eating dragons.

famouswaffles 3y ago

Is it so extraordinary? Humans bred with Neanderthals. And it wasn't just a few over-curious, it happened frequently enough there are noticeable traces of their DNA in modern humans despite their Millenia long extinction. This means that were having sex with Neanderthals regularly enough that it's unlikely this was an inherently dangerous activity (i.e try boning a chimpanzee for example). Not just that, they gave birth to their children and then raised them fairly regularly. This resulting offspring didn't just die off either, they mated successfully enough with humans. I just don't see that happening with a species that wasn't in our intelligence band.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wredue 3y ago
(Try boning a chimpanzee) Dude. This isn’t evolution. Post Neanderthal humans were not far removed from Neanderthal. As far as evolution goes Populations evolve. It’s not like there was Neanderthal and then big bang boom, modern smart human.
- famouswaffles 3y ago
  Trying to have sex with a wild Champanzee would be a very dangerous activity to engage in. That's the point of that comment. I know how evolution works.
  - suzzer99 3y ago
    Bonobos would probably be into it. They're horny little suckers.
pfannkuchen 3y ago
I wonder if/when Neanderthals will start being considered an extinct race of humans instead of a separate species. Under today’s morality it feels pretty weird to draw a species line between us and something so similar to us. I would maybe put money on this happening in our lifetime. Separately, is the same thing happening today? It’s a big cycle. People leave Africa and enter a different climate zone, they are isolated from the root population for a long time, they change, then they eventually reunite with the root population and merge. Rinse and repeat. We might have short circuited this cycle with transportation technology though, which could explain why Neanderthals diverged significantly more as they had more time away.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  It is actually interesting how we separate human race from other animals and their "breeds". Which can interbreed while presenting significant different features or even behaviours. Why would we as a race be above that? Why can't we consider the species that can effectively interbreed with us more in this line of thought than as entirely separate species?

chatmasta 3y ago

The claim that intelligence might not be the primary determinant of a fitness function doesn't seem so extraordinary. What if the neanderthals were a bunch of Einsteins, but they died out because they spent too much time thinking instead of hunting? All we really know is that "we" (that is to say, we homo sapiens) out-competed the neanderthals during some local maxima of the fitness function when the maximum selection pressure was in our favor. It says nothing about our relative intelligence.