6 ms·

I've been experimenting with making a Firefox plugin to hobble YouTube. I don't want to outright ban it (easily done using /etc/hosts) because there is good stu

by xrd 3y ago

I've been experimenting with making a Firefox plugin to hobble YouTube. I don't want to outright ban it (easily done using /etc/hosts) because there is good stuff on YouTube. I talked to a guy at a conference who seemed really offended I might hack into my kids computers by modifying their YouTube viewing. But YouTube is hacking their brains right now and it drives me crazy. No one seems to be concerned about that. I'm trying to get my kids to use their Ubuntu Linux machines instead of the fucking iPads. There is no way to inject myself into their YouTube experience on iOS devices. It's just them and Google, with no insight or control by me, their parent. I hate it. And I pay for YouTube ad-free. Why can't I have a dashboard to prevent my kids from seeing Ninja kids where they just shill junk from Walmart?

j45 3y ago
I'd love to learn how Youtube Kids was not helpful? https://www.youtubekids.com/ https://www.youtubekids.com/
15457345234 3y ago
> I'm trying to get my kids to use their Ubuntu Linux machines instead of the fucking iPads. Take the pads away, daddy. That's what being a daddy is about, preventing harm when you see it occurring right in front of your eyes. Nobody's gonna do it apart from you.
- xrd 3y ago
  It's a fight between me, my wife and YouTube, sadly. But, your advice is 100% correct.
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    I mean that's a tough one, because the algorithm can be very subtle sometimes and trying to explain your reasoning as to why you think a certain trend in the content you're being suggested is an insidious form of behaviour modification is genuinely hard to do without sounding like a schizo who's spent too much time with Alex Jones. Sometimes it seems to 'give up' and get frustrated - I literally was suggested some weird religious 'being gay is a sin' video followed by a literal vaginal speculum video once. Can't really misread that message.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> There is no way to inject myself into their YouTube experience on iOS devices. Why don't you throttle YT on the iPads (via the firewall) so it's unwatchable, then blame Apple. You could make it somewhat intermittent to make it more convincing.
- dns_snek 3y ago
  Lying to your kids is a terrible idea, unless you want to breed distrust and resentment.
  - xrd 3y ago
    This is the dilemma. They aren't rational about what YouTube does to their brains. They don't understand. And YouTube isn't honest either. What's the right approach to fight it other than complete abstinence? There are a lot of dishonest actors in the Internet world, how do you be honest in a sea of drug dealers in another industry?
  - j45 3y ago
    Leaving kids to navigate conquering something that adults haven't isn't super appealing either. With the lack of options out there, finding a way to preview content before it's made available seems the way to go. Doing it early and keeping it that way seems to be the trick. But kids will often learn there is a "different" youtube on other family member's phones, or kids at school.
- xrd 3y ago
  That's a good idea. Does that require pihole or something? I've got that installed but wasn't aware that I could do that. I'm not aware of how you can throttle traffic without intercepting on the device directly.
  - hestefisk 3y ago
    Throttle on the DNS level. I do that.
gizmo385 3y ago
> I'm trying to get my kids to use their Ubuntu Linux machines instead of the fucking iPads. Why? Like seriously. Why? What benefit does this give to your kid? From your kid’s perspective, the laptop is going to be less useful, more hostile, it’s going to limit how they’re able to talk and relate to their friends. Outside of your desires as a technologist and personal feelings about Linux, why should your kid want to use it? It feels like you’re projecting the ideals and values of your career onto your kids and then you’re surprised when they don’t share those ideals.
- xrd 3y ago
  Good question. This is my opinion, but I feel I've got facts to back it up. I don't want them using iPads because I consider the walled garden of apple to be hostile and predatory. Specifically, this is a place where I cannot control the device, where there are countless apps that are "free" that are advertised to my children without my consent, and then attempt to convince them to beg me constantly to purchase stupid coins or avatars or whatever. These app designers know that parents will give in after a hundred demands, and I resent that manipulation. And, I don't think Apple cares, in fact, I think Apple actively supports them for the 30% take they get. That's a mixture of opinions and facts, so you'll need to sort it out. It's ironic that Steve Jobs called the computer the bicycle of the mind. I doubt he would have called the iPad that. I'm hopeful my kids will learn a lot more about computers using Ubuntu. They definitely do explore much more on that then on their iPads which are purely consumption devices. My son was voluntarily using scratch to code a game tonight! He uses his iPad just for YouTube, so that feels like progress.
  - noboostforyou 3y ago
    > It's ironic that Steve Jobs called the computer the bicycle of the mind. I doubt he would have called the iPad that. FWIW, Jobs specifically said he would never give his kids an iPad because it's bad for their developing brains. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/fashion/steve-jobs-apple-was-a-low-tech-parent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/fashion/steve-jobs-apple-...
    - 3y ago
pram 3y ago
It’s not that hard, I bought my two daughters iMacs and threw their tablets away. They got over it. Now they play Minecraft and Hello Kitty which is a slightly less braindead activity than YouTube!
- Psychoshy_bc1q 3y ago
  try to teach thm chess
- Psychoshy_bc1q 3y ago
  try to teach them chess
  - xrd 3y ago
    My kids are doing chess. After your comment, I searched for best YouTube chess channels. I love this one about amateurs (and trash talking while playing chess): https://www.youtube.com/c/CoffeeChess https://www.youtube.com/c/CoffeeChess Found in this list: https://blog.favoree.io/articles/best-chess-youtube-channels/ https://blog.favoree.io/articles/best-chess-youtube-channels... But, why does YouTube not make it easy for me to surface this content to my kids instead of these crappy channels like Ninja Kids or Aphmau which celebrate monoculture, consumerism, and fake accomplishments so they can sell junk from Walmart?
jjeaff 3y ago
that's what the YouTube Kids app is for. you log in with your Google account and you create the kids accounts. you can select content by age and blacklist channels or you can whitelist only. Whitelisted only is probably the only way you can block some of the more annoying channels like Vlad and Nicki, they seem to have literally dozens of channels all full of the same drivel. additionally, iPads have strong parental controls. you can limit time overall on the iPad and you can limit time on specific apps.
yonesauce 3y ago
My coworker occasionally talks about his 4yo son watching youtube and it used to make me very uncomfortable. As someone without kids, I don't want to tell him what to do, but I thought it was a terrible idea. Now, apparently his son has been watching lego and minecraft redstone tutorials, asking his parents to help him read the descriptions and linked text tutorials so he can build them! Youtube can really be an awesome place, but it's a double-edged sword for sure. Speaking from experience, I was handed an iPod touch in middle school, and have been addicted to youtube ever since. Although most, if not all, of the passions that define me today were discovered/cultivated on youtube, all too often I'd never engage with them outside youtube. I really feel like I achieved nothing outside of class during high school and college, because I spent all my free time consuming. What works for me now is using the unhook firefox extension [1] on my mac and android tablet, and then brave browser on my iPhone, signed out and with search history off. Basically eliminating all recommendations, I can still go to youtube with a specific purpose, but can't use it to doom scroll (that's what hn is for). I'd be happy to pay for premium, but not without a way to turn off all recommendations outside of search. I'd be super interested to hear more details about the firefox plugin you're working on, is it open source? [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-recommended-videos/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-recom...
- xrd 3y ago
  I haven't open sourced it. I will do that soon. I'm very interested in your story, thanks for sharing! If you email me at chris@extrastatic.com I'll happily share the firefox extension when it is ready.
barrysteve 3y ago
It bugs me how similar Youtube Shorts is to the spinning wheel game on The Price Is Right. So much of social media is TPIR style gambling for dopamine and worthless knowledge.
- wildrhythms 3y ago
  Youtube Shorts, Tiktok, Instagram, Twitter... basically any 'infinite feed' of content is no different from channel surfing of yore, which I think is also harmful to our brain and attention span.

by xrd 3y ago

j45 3y ago

I'd love to learn how Youtube Kids was not helpful? https://www.youtubekids.com/ https://www.youtubekids.com/

15457345234 3y ago

> I'm trying to get my kids to use their Ubuntu Linux machines instead of the fucking iPads. Take the pads away, daddy. That's what being a daddy is about, preventing harm when you see it occurring right in front of your eyes. Nobody's gonna do it apart from you.

xrd 3y ago
It's a fight between me, my wife and YouTube, sadly. But, your advice is 100% correct.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  I mean that's a tough one, because the algorithm can be very subtle sometimes and trying to explain your reasoning as to why you think a certain trend in the content you're being suggested is an insidious form of behaviour modification is genuinely hard to do without sounding like a schizo who's spent too much time with Alex Jones. Sometimes it seems to 'give up' and get frustrated - I literally was suggested some weird religious 'being gay is a sin' video followed by a literal vaginal speculum video once. Can't really misread that message.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

> There is no way to inject myself into their YouTube experience on iOS devices. Why don't you throttle YT on the iPads (via the firewall) so it's unwatchable, then blame Apple. You could make it somewhat intermittent to make it more convincing.

dns_snek 3y ago
Lying to your kids is a terrible idea, unless you want to breed distrust and resentment.
- xrd 3y ago
  This is the dilemma. They aren't rational about what YouTube does to their brains. They don't understand. And YouTube isn't honest either. What's the right approach to fight it other than complete abstinence? There are a lot of dishonest actors in the Internet world, how do you be honest in a sea of drug dealers in another industry?
- j45 3y ago
  Leaving kids to navigate conquering something that adults haven't isn't super appealing either. With the lack of options out there, finding a way to preview content before it's made available seems the way to go. Doing it early and keeping it that way seems to be the trick. But kids will often learn there is a "different" youtube on other family member's phones, or kids at school.
xrd 3y ago
That's a good idea. Does that require pihole or something? I've got that installed but wasn't aware that I could do that. I'm not aware of how you can throttle traffic without intercepting on the device directly.
- hestefisk 3y ago
  Throttle on the DNS level. I do that.

gizmo385 3y ago

> I'm trying to get my kids to use their Ubuntu Linux machines instead of the fucking iPads. Why? Like seriously. Why? What benefit does this give to your kid? From your kid’s perspective, the laptop is going to be less useful, more hostile, it’s going to limit how they’re able to talk and relate to their friends. Outside of your desires as a technologist and personal feelings about Linux, why should your kid want to use it? It feels like you’re projecting the ideals and values of your career onto your kids and then you’re surprised when they don’t share those ideals.

xrd 3y ago
Good question. This is my opinion, but I feel I've got facts to back it up. I don't want them using iPads because I consider the walled garden of apple to be hostile and predatory. Specifically, this is a place where I cannot control the device, where there are countless apps that are "free" that are advertised to my children without my consent, and then attempt to convince them to beg me constantly to purchase stupid coins or avatars or whatever. These app designers know that parents will give in after a hundred demands, and I resent that manipulation. And, I don't think Apple cares, in fact, I think Apple actively supports them for the 30% take they get. That's a mixture of opinions and facts, so you'll need to sort it out. It's ironic that Steve Jobs called the computer the bicycle of the mind. I doubt he would have called the iPad that. I'm hopeful my kids will learn a lot more about computers using Ubuntu. They definitely do explore much more on that then on their iPads which are purely consumption devices. My son was voluntarily using scratch to code a game tonight! He uses his iPad just for YouTube, so that feels like progress.
- noboostforyou 3y ago
  > It's ironic that Steve Jobs called the computer the bicycle of the mind. I doubt he would have called the iPad that. FWIW, Jobs specifically said he would never give his kids an iPad because it's bad for their developing brains. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/fashion/steve-jobs-apple-was-a-low-tech-parent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/fashion/steve-jobs-apple-...
  - 3y ago

pram 3y ago

It’s not that hard, I bought my two daughters iMacs and threw their tablets away. They got over it. Now they play Minecraft and Hello Kitty which is a slightly less braindead activity than YouTube!

Psychoshy_bc1q 3y ago
try to teach thm chess
Psychoshy_bc1q 3y ago
try to teach them chess
- xrd 3y ago
  My kids are doing chess. After your comment, I searched for best YouTube chess channels. I love this one about amateurs (and trash talking while playing chess): https://www.youtube.com/c/CoffeeChess https://www.youtube.com/c/CoffeeChess Found in this list: https://blog.favoree.io/articles/best-chess-youtube-channels/ https://blog.favoree.io/articles/best-chess-youtube-channels... But, why does YouTube not make it easy for me to surface this content to my kids instead of these crappy channels like Ninja Kids or Aphmau which celebrate monoculture, consumerism, and fake accomplishments so they can sell junk from Walmart?

jjeaff 3y ago

that's what the YouTube Kids app is for. you log in with your Google account and you create the kids accounts. you can select content by age and blacklist channels or you can whitelist only. Whitelisted only is probably the only way you can block some of the more annoying channels like Vlad and Nicki, they seem to have literally dozens of channels all full of the same drivel. additionally, iPads have strong parental controls. you can limit time overall on the iPad and you can limit time on specific apps.

yonesauce 3y ago

My coworker occasionally talks about his 4yo son watching youtube and it used to make me very uncomfortable. As someone without kids, I don't want to tell him what to do, but I thought it was a terrible idea. Now, apparently his son has been watching lego and minecraft redstone tutorials, asking his parents to help him read the descriptions and linked text tutorials so he can build them! Youtube can really be an awesome place, but it's a double-edged sword for sure. Speaking from experience, I was handed an iPod touch in middle school, and have been addicted to youtube ever since. Although most, if not all, of the passions that define me today were discovered/cultivated on youtube, all too often I'd never engage with them outside youtube. I really feel like I achieved nothing outside of class during high school and college, because I spent all my free time consuming. What works for me now is using the unhook firefox extension [1] on my mac and android tablet, and then brave browser on my iPhone, signed out and with search history off. Basically eliminating all recommendations, I can still go to youtube with a specific purpose, but can't use it to doom scroll (that's what hn is for). I'd be happy to pay for premium, but not without a way to turn off all recommendations outside of search. I'd be super interested to hear more details about the firefox plugin you're working on, is it open source? [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-recommended-videos/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-recom...

xrd 3y ago
I haven't open sourced it. I will do that soon. I'm very interested in your story, thanks for sharing! If you email me at chris@extrastatic.com I'll happily share the firefox extension when it is ready.

barrysteve 3y ago

It bugs me how similar Youtube Shorts is to the spinning wheel game on The Price Is Right. So much of social media is TPIR style gambling for dopamine and worthless knowledge.

wildrhythms 3y ago
Youtube Shorts, Tiktok, Instagram, Twitter... basically any 'infinite feed' of content is no different from channel surfing of yore, which I think is also harmful to our brain and attention span.