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"Liberalism" can be imprecise but the author is clearly using the definition that includes any sub-ideology that mostly follows the principles of the Age of Enl

by jowea 3y ago

"Liberalism" can be imprecise but the author is clearly using the definition that includes any sub-ideology that mostly follows the principles of the Age of Enlightenment and any country with a liberal democracy, not only laissez-faire economics. So the governing ideology in the Western world and a large share of the rest, plus what a large share of the rest pays fig leaf to except for countries like Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and China which openly declare another ideology. I don't think this is particularly unusual. What would be stereotypically American would be associating "liberalism" with only what the Democratic party preaches. > An awful lot of Germans in other parts of the world supported the Nazis without needing special encouragement. In Europe I think there was quite a bit of cross border organizing. But did the German Americans on the other side of the world ever do that to a significant level. > > The liberal principle of sovereign national borders is at stake, as is the liberal belief that nationhood and citizenship matter more than race. > Again, this doesn't sound like liberalism, but rather the idea of the State that originated with the Treaty of Westphalia. I'm not sure, but the important part here is the second one. Civic nationalism ("the liberal belief that nationhood and citizenship matter more than race") is an aspect of liberalism and it goes against the sort of ethnic based national loyalty across sovereign state borders that China is supporting. It does feel a bit End of History, but what is not true for a different liberal context?

zrn900 3y ago
Civic nationalism comes from the French Revolutionary ideas that were put into code by Napoleon. Its a (then) radical egalitarian idea that originated from the French parliamentarians who sat on the left side of the assembly, espousing the predecessors of modern left wing, socialist and communist ideas. The liberals you speak of sat on the right hand side, and they wanted to follow a 'middle road' which would allow both privileged aristocrats and some amount of popular power to coexist. The ones who sat on the left side of the parliament won and that is what the entire world follows as an ideology except the Anglosaxon world (as it was dubbed so in diplomacy then and today in history and political science), where the mixed elitist and aristocratic ideology survived because the French Revolution did not touch those parts. Long story short, yes, as the earlier commenter said, you people seem to be speaking from an exclusively Angloamerican view of the world where you seem to attribute to liberalism things that dont belong to it.

by jowea 3y ago

zrn900 3y ago

Civic nationalism comes from the French Revolutionary ideas that were put into code by Napoleon. Its a (then) radical egalitarian idea that originated from the French parliamentarians who sat on the left side of the assembly, espousing the predecessors of modern left wing, socialist and communist ideas. The liberals you speak of sat on the right hand side, and they wanted to follow a 'middle road' which would allow both privileged aristocrats and some amount of popular power to coexist. The ones who sat on the left side of the parliament won and that is what the entire world follows as an ideology except the Anglosaxon world (as it was dubbed so in diplomacy then and today in history and political science), where the mixed elitist and aristocratic ideology survived because the French Revolution did not touch those parts. Long story short, yes, as the earlier commenter said, you people seem to be speaking from an exclusively Angloamerican view of the world where you seem to attribute to liberalism things that dont belong to it.