4 ms·

In race to make artillery shells, US, EU see different results

18 points by dralley 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago
tl;dr; - The US has government-owned (but contractor-operated) munitions plants, and boosting production is an actual (vs. lip-service) priority. The EU has a bunch of purely-private producers, all hog-tied with regulatory and financial constraints. Cynical suggestion: An annual EU-wide "which country can boost production the most?" contest. Leading politicians from the losing countries are rewarded with six months in the front lines in Ukraine.
- logtempo 3y ago
  or US see a business while Europe see a cost. it's how business work: if you produce and consume your product, you at best earn nothing. I also think US are a single entity while EU is multiple, US have traditionally a bigger defense industry...
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Goodhart's Law will have a field day with your suggestion :)
- phonon 3y ago
  A Euro-munition contest?
pangolinja 3y ago
meanwhile in reality: https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/10/21/russian-army-has-4m-artillery-shells-350k-received-from-outside/ https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/10/21/russian-army-ha...
- rospaya 3y ago
  Aren't NK shells notoriously unreliable and have large rates of duds?
- paulmd 3y ago
  shell condition is definitely a big "if" there, the shells are inconsistently packed and apparently factory workers will steal the (hard) copper forcing wire that cleans the barrel from fouling from some of the shells... and powder that is not stored consistently is itself dangerous and unpredictable. heat, humidity, time, etc all can paradoxically increase the burn rate of powder grains, stabilizing agents leak out etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire there's an insane amount of 8mm mauser out there due to it being a relevant caliber for like 60+ years, and some of it has been stored in awful conditions and tends to... develop overpressure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunvMjcJPHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunvMjcJPHY

18 points by dralley 3y ago

tl;dr; - The US has government-owned (but contractor-operated) munitions plants, and boosting production is an actual (vs. lip-service) priority. The EU has a bunch of purely-private producers, all hog-tied with regulatory and financial constraints. Cynical suggestion: An annual EU-wide "which country can boost production the most?" contest. Leading politicians from the losing countries are rewarded with six months in the front lines in Ukraine.

logtempo 3y ago
or US see a business while Europe see a cost. it's how business work: if you produce and consume your product, you at best earn nothing. I also think US are a single entity while EU is multiple, US have traditionally a bigger defense industry...
Georgelemental 3y ago
Goodhart's Law will have a field day with your suggestion :)
phonon 3y ago
A Euro-munition contest?

pangolinja 3y ago

meanwhile in reality: https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/10/21/russian-army-has-4m-artillery-shells-350k-received-from-outside/ https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/10/21/russian-army-ha...

rospaya 3y ago
Aren't NK shells notoriously unreliable and have large rates of duds?
paulmd 3y ago
shell condition is definitely a big "if" there, the shells are inconsistently packed and apparently factory workers will steal the (hard) copper forcing wire that cleans the barrel from fouling from some of the shells... and powder that is not stored consistently is itself dangerous and unpredictable. heat, humidity, time, etc all can paradoxically increase the burn rate of powder grains, stabilizing agents leak out etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire there's an insane amount of 8mm mauser out there due to it being a relevant caliber for like 60+ years, and some of it has been stored in awful conditions and tends to... develop overpressure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunvMjcJPHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunvMjcJPHY