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> 1. People who are into cars as status items (which encompasses car enthusiasts, because lets be real, very few of those people who are into "performance" even

> 1. People who are into cars as status items (which encompasses car enthusiasts, because lets be real, very few of those people who are into "performance" even touch 50% of the cars capability on public roads). This is your BMW/Porsche and other buyers. I don't disagree with what you're probably trying to say here, but I disagree with how you're stating it. First, "car enthusiast" != "performance enthusiast". There are plenty of people who like cars for reasons other than going fast, and sub-interests in the car enthusiast community that are not performance oriented. Second, people who actually do enjoy the art of performance driving don't have to do it on the road. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the US that have driven on race tracks. Third, there are certainly performance cars that people do take to the limits on the streets, often in violation of some traffic rules. Not every performance car is a 911 GT3. Probably a very high percentage of Miata owners have approached cornering limits on the street on cloverleafs.

ActorNightly 3y ago
There are an extremely small number of car enthusiasts that are in it because they like working with their hands to make performance mods to try stuff. The rest is all about status. I know this because I used to be solidly in the car world back in the early 2000s , my friend from college had an Integra Type R that he raced in the Honda Challenge that we both tracked and worked on, and I got to experience pretty much all of car culture first hand. People who are into modifications for power to roll race on the street do it solidly just to show off how much money they can spend. People who drive "hard" on the street really arent even close to performance capabilities of their car. Give me most any ~250 hp sedan, no matter which wheel drive, Ill redo the suspension and stick on good tires, and I can keep up with any 911 on twisty roads. The culture in this regard is pretty evident because I will be seen as a poser if I do this. As for the track, there is a separate subculture that happens at the track. Sure there is a minority out there to just have fun in their regular cars, most everybody including them are oogling the expensive track toys, and nobody is paying attention to actual driving skill of the people. At one point and time, a husband and his wife pulled up with a mobile home towing a garage with 2 Ferrari Challenge cars, with the entire setup costing more than I have ever made in my entire life even now 10 years later, and of course they were not any faster around the track, but they were the stars of that day. Racing series are also literally about who can spend the most money, until you cross the bridge of being good enough to run sponsors. Not even on the car parts either, for example, we would camp at the track, while other people would pull up in their trailer homes and get a much better night sleep with AC, which gives a huge advantage come racing.
- kube-system 3y ago
  I know, I've been to the track with a couple of my cars too. My point is that you neither have to reach the limits of a car's performance, nor do you need a high performance car, to appreciate cars for what they are. Many of the people who ended up on the track in the 00's and 10's are people who enjoyed whippin' 90s shitboxes around country roads, but couldn't afford the track. These are hardly people who buy cars for status.
SpecialistK 3y ago
I don't think that changes the parent's point at all. Whether the focus of your enthusiasm and status is performance or luxury is irrelevant if you're spending more than you "need" to for your vehicle. It's like custom PCs - some go for EATX systems with Threadripper and dual graphics cards and NVMe RAID 0 while others go for 4L ITX systems or fanless configs. But a Dell tower is functionally very similar. Someone buying a S-class Mercedes probably isn't doing it for the V8 but for the comfortable interior. They're still spending $100,000 when a Camry could do a similar job.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Yes, that's what I was recognizing in my first sentence.

ActorNightly 3y ago

There are an extremely small number of car enthusiasts that are in it because they like working with their hands to make performance mods to try stuff. The rest is all about status. I know this because I used to be solidly in the car world back in the early 2000s , my friend from college had an Integra Type R that he raced in the Honda Challenge that we both tracked and worked on, and I got to experience pretty much all of car culture first hand. People who are into modifications for power to roll race on the street do it solidly just to show off how much money they can spend. People who drive "hard" on the street really arent even close to performance capabilities of their car. Give me most any ~250 hp sedan, no matter which wheel drive, Ill redo the suspension and stick on good tires, and I can keep up with any 911 on twisty roads. The culture in this regard is pretty evident because I will be seen as a poser if I do this. As for the track, there is a separate subculture that happens at the track. Sure there is a minority out there to just have fun in their regular cars, most everybody including them are oogling the expensive track toys, and nobody is paying attention to actual driving skill of the people. At one point and time, a husband and his wife pulled up with a mobile home towing a garage with 2 Ferrari Challenge cars, with the entire setup costing more than I have ever made in my entire life even now 10 years later, and of course they were not any faster around the track, but they were the stars of that day. Racing series are also literally about who can spend the most money, until you cross the bridge of being good enough to run sponsors. Not even on the car parts either, for example, we would camp at the track, while other people would pull up in their trailer homes and get a much better night sleep with AC, which gives a huge advantage come racing.

kube-system 3y ago
I know, I've been to the track with a couple of my cars too. My point is that you neither have to reach the limits of a car's performance, nor do you need a high performance car, to appreciate cars for what they are. Many of the people who ended up on the track in the 00's and 10's are people who enjoyed whippin' 90s shitboxes around country roads, but couldn't afford the track. These are hardly people who buy cars for status.

SpecialistK 3y ago

I don't think that changes the parent's point at all. Whether the focus of your enthusiasm and status is performance or luxury is irrelevant if you're spending more than you "need" to for your vehicle. It's like custom PCs - some go for EATX systems with Threadripper and dual graphics cards and NVMe RAID 0 while others go for 4L ITX systems or fanless configs. But a Dell tower is functionally very similar. Someone buying a S-class Mercedes probably isn't doing it for the V8 but for the comfortable interior. They're still spending $100,000 when a Camry could do a similar job.

kube-system 3y ago
Yes, that's what I was recognizing in my first sentence.