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It would be more interesting to see a headline like that > Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament This is a hand-out to the rich. Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group.
- theturtletalks 3y ago
  Rushing to create laws due to outrage is the worst thing for small players. The big players will find the loopholes quickly and the smaller players in the sector feel the hurt of regulation.
- hulitu 3y ago
  > Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group And who, do you think, finances those "NGO"s and "citizen group"s ?
sputr 3y ago
Lobbying is a core pillar of democracy. Yeah, I know, I dont like it either. But that's reality and no amount of prohibition will stop humans from being human. The solution is clear: everyone needs to lobby for their interests and the people should all fund (crowdsourcing) organizations that lobby for politics they want done. Transparency of lobbying, while benefitial is not a solution.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Lobbying is allowing people and interest groups to make their views known directly to lawmakers. This is democracy and free society in action, indeed. As long as it is transparent there is nothing not to "like". That's why this ban in Amazon lobbyists is actually bad news but not surprising if you've been following how the EU has been evolving.
  - BillyTheMage 3y ago
    I fail to see how letting the rich influence politicians is good. How is "we put a bunch of money together, now listen to us" good for democracy?
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      Lobbying is not "the rich". It's large economic sectors that account for many jobs and economic activity. It is right that they be allowed to make their views and interests known in a transparent way. They will anyway as they have the resources and contacts, so we might as well have an official, transparent channel.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        > Lobbying is not "the rich". It's large economic sectors that account for many jobs and economic activity. It is right that they be allowed to make their views and interests known in a transparent way. They will anyway as they have the resources and contacts, so we might as well have an official, transparent channel. Corporations aren't citizens though. Politics exists to represent the people, not the corporations. They shouldn't have any influence over politics. The economy is not a goal on its own, it's only there for the benefit of the citizens. And they already have a really heavy influence in favour of their goals in terms of all their employees, shareholders etc who can vote. They already have adequate representation that way. We're not as bad as the US yet with all the heavy campaign contributions with strings attached, but we don't want to end up there either. So I'm very happy the huge multinationals get some pushback.
    - arp242 3y ago
      Free Software Foundation Europe is a lobbying group: https://ec.europa.eu/transparencyregister/public/consultation/displaylobbyist.do?id=33882407107-76 https://ec.europa.eu/transparencyregister/public/consultatio... There are tons of (non-rich) lobbying groups like this, for things like climate action, labour rights, consumer rights, etc. Of course, it's probably correct that lobbying is probably skewed towards the rich. And maybe we need to correct for that. But then the question becomes "should we correct the influence of money in lobbying, and if so, how?"
- JohnFen 3y ago
  The way lobbying is done in the US ensures that the rich and powerful will always have a greater say than everyone else. It's not unlike a bribery scheme in that sense. Normal people don't have the time, money, or connections to effectively lobby. The best that you can do is kick a few bucks to some NGO that seems to be in line with your stance on whatever issue. But that's really just making the whole problem worse rather than working to having a government that is better at representing the people.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Normal people don't have the time, money, or connections to effectively lobby Yes, they do. And many Americans are good at reaching out to their electeds. Most aren’t, however, which makes cutting a few bucks to an aligned NGO more comfortable than picking up the phone.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I'm good at reaching out to my representatives. I consider it a civic duty. But I don't for a moment think that doing that is "effective" when compared to the massive amount of corporate lobbying. I can't wine and dine them, kick large amounts of money to their favorite charities, take them on expensive "junkets", etc.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    This seems like a tautology, if they didn't have a greater say then they wouldn't qualify as 'rich and powerful' in the first place, but as average people.
- Teever 3y ago
  Voting a core pillar of democracy. We don't let children vote, or in some places the incarcerated and/or felons, and we judiciously regulate how and when others can vote. If we can regulate voting this way surely we can regulate lobbying.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > If we can regulate voting this way surely we can regulate lobbying We absolutely regulate lobbying.
    - 93po 3y ago
      Not effectively
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Not effectively Sure. Perhaps the greatest asset the over-the-top lobbyists have is the ban-lobbying bunch.
  - sputr 3y ago
    You realise that lobbying is literally sitting down for a cup of coffee with "a friend", right? It's a whole different world of probal that would require an authoritarian state with an absolute control over people's lives... And at that point it becomes moot.
    - hulitu 3y ago
      > You realise that lobbying is literally sitting down for a cup of coffee with "a friend", right? You realize that lobbying is literally hiring the polician in your NGO, before and after his tennure, right ? /s
- hulitu 3y ago
  > Lobbying is a core pillar of democracy Lobbying is legalized corruption, by the rich and for the rich.

> Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament This is a hand-out to the rich. Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group.

theturtletalks 3y ago
Rushing to create laws due to outrage is the worst thing for small players. The big players will find the loopholes quickly and the smaller players in the sector feel the hurt of regulation.
hulitu 3y ago
> Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group And who, do you think, finances those "NGO"s and "citizen group"s ?

sputr 3y ago

Lobbying is a core pillar of democracy. Yeah, I know, I dont like it either. But that's reality and no amount of prohibition will stop humans from being human. The solution is clear: everyone needs to lobby for their interests and the people should all fund (crowdsourcing) organizations that lobby for politics they want done. Transparency of lobbying, while benefitial is not a solution.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
Lobbying is allowing people and interest groups to make their views known directly to lawmakers. This is democracy and free society in action, indeed. As long as it is transparent there is nothing not to "like". That's why this ban in Amazon lobbyists is actually bad news but not surprising if you've been following how the EU has been evolving.
- BillyTheMage 3y ago
  I fail to see how letting the rich influence politicians is good. How is "we put a bunch of money together, now listen to us" good for democracy?
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Lobbying is not "the rich". It's large economic sectors that account for many jobs and economic activity. It is right that they be allowed to make their views and interests known in a transparent way. They will anyway as they have the resources and contacts, so we might as well have an official, transparent channel.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      > Lobbying is not "the rich". It's large economic sectors that account for many jobs and economic activity. It is right that they be allowed to make their views and interests known in a transparent way. They will anyway as they have the resources and contacts, so we might as well have an official, transparent channel. Corporations aren't citizens though. Politics exists to represent the people, not the corporations. They shouldn't have any influence over politics. The economy is not a goal on its own, it's only there for the benefit of the citizens. And they already have a really heavy influence in favour of their goals in terms of all their employees, shareholders etc who can vote. They already have adequate representation that way. We're not as bad as the US yet with all the heavy campaign contributions with strings attached, but we don't want to end up there either. So I'm very happy the huge multinationals get some pushback.
  - arp242 3y ago
    Free Software Foundation Europe is a lobbying group: https://ec.europa.eu/transparencyregister/public/consultation/displaylobbyist.do?id=33882407107-76 https://ec.europa.eu/transparencyregister/public/consultatio... There are tons of (non-rich) lobbying groups like this, for things like climate action, labour rights, consumer rights, etc. Of course, it's probably correct that lobbying is probably skewed towards the rich. And maybe we need to correct for that. But then the question becomes "should we correct the influence of money in lobbying, and if so, how?"
JohnFen 3y ago
The way lobbying is done in the US ensures that the rich and powerful will always have a greater say than everyone else. It's not unlike a bribery scheme in that sense. Normal people don't have the time, money, or connections to effectively lobby. The best that you can do is kick a few bucks to some NGO that seems to be in line with your stance on whatever issue. But that's really just making the whole problem worse rather than working to having a government that is better at representing the people.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Normal people don't have the time, money, or connections to effectively lobby Yes, they do. And many Americans are good at reaching out to their electeds. Most aren’t, however, which makes cutting a few bucks to an aligned NGO more comfortable than picking up the phone.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I'm good at reaching out to my representatives. I consider it a civic duty. But I don't for a moment think that doing that is "effective" when compared to the massive amount of corporate lobbying. I can't wine and dine them, kick large amounts of money to their favorite charities, take them on expensive "junkets", etc.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  This seems like a tautology, if they didn't have a greater say then they wouldn't qualify as 'rich and powerful' in the first place, but as average people.
Teever 3y ago
Voting a core pillar of democracy. We don't let children vote, or in some places the incarcerated and/or felons, and we judiciously regulate how and when others can vote. If we can regulate voting this way surely we can regulate lobbying.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > If we can regulate voting this way surely we can regulate lobbying We absolutely regulate lobbying.
  - 93po 3y ago
    Not effectively
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Not effectively Sure. Perhaps the greatest asset the over-the-top lobbyists have is the ban-lobbying bunch.
- sputr 3y ago
  You realise that lobbying is literally sitting down for a cup of coffee with "a friend", right? It's a whole different world of probal that would require an authoritarian state with an absolute control over people's lives... And at that point it becomes moot.
  - hulitu 3y ago
    > You realise that lobbying is literally sitting down for a cup of coffee with "a friend", right? You realize that lobbying is literally hiring the polician in your NGO, before and after his tennure, right ? /s
hulitu 3y ago
> Lobbying is a core pillar of democracy Lobbying is legalized corruption, by the rich and for the rich.