4 ms·

Has the tech industry still not recovered or am I that bad?

10 points by outrun86 3y ago

pavel_lishin 3y ago
I assume that OP is also looking at a much smaller field, right? How many ML Ph.D. candidate jobs are out there, vs. jobs for a simple CRUD-smith like myself?
alephnerd 3y ago
The poster is a ML PhD candidate in EMEA. The market there sucks worse than the US rn (which itself ain't that hot)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rich_sasha 3y ago
I don't know anything about the Reddit poster, but I see so many CVs with great academic credentials who can't do the most basic programming tasks - would fail Fizz Buzz. So much so that you can't believe they managed to do the coding their academic work required. Of course I don't know if that applies to that poster, but I met many people who could say something similar and didn't know how to write a Python for loop.
- patientzero 3y ago
  For someone as described being able to do loops in python is equivalent to expecting a theoretical mathematician to be good at accounting.. It is kind of a coincidence if these people write code on the side or do their own accounting.
  - rich_sasha 3y ago
    Not really, not in ML. You can't do anything in ML without writing some kind of program, even if it just glues together sklearn or pytorch calls. I'm not talking about advanced algorithm knowledge, but merely being able to cobble together the kind of program their CV implies they do on a daily basis. Again, I don't know if it applies to the Reddit poster, but I sure met people like this. One example, not an academic, but someone who claimed he "revolutionized" his Important Department at Big Corp using ML and NNs, and didn't know what gradient descent is. I don't mean he couldn't implement it on the spot, rather be never heard of it, and couldn't understand when I described it to him. Another one, PhD candidate in computer science at top-10 uni, self-described "expert" in C++, could not, indeed, write a C++ for loop over an integer range. Or indeed a for loop in any language of his choice - he had known, but forgot. He had a number of publications that sounded sane. Anyway, if someone is an ML academic, wants an industry job, and can't code enough, that would probably lead to the described outcome. And again, I'm not jumping to that conclusion.
    - patientzero 3y ago
      It seems to me like you've just described hiring a mathematician on arithmetic skill. If you hire this way of course many will use code practice tools to pretend they are juniors or incapable of delegating since most of their time should be occupied with less low level ways of doing things or assigning things. I can go a long time without writing for loops, the better I know the surrounding tools in an ecosystem, the less I accidentally reinvent something with details that low. I don't remember all that much about pandas, but enough to try to use it to do a matrix operation instead of writing the for loop if I were assigned a ML task for some reason.

10 points by outrun86 3y ago

I assume that OP is also looking at a much smaller field, right? How many ML Ph.D. candidate jobs are out there, vs. jobs for a simple CRUD-smith like myself?

alephnerd 3y ago

The poster is a ML PhD candidate in EMEA. The market there sucks worse than the US rn (which itself ain't that hot)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

rich_sasha 3y ago

I don't know anything about the Reddit poster, but I see so many CVs with great academic credentials who can't do the most basic programming tasks - would fail Fizz Buzz. So much so that you can't believe they managed to do the coding their academic work required. Of course I don't know if that applies to that poster, but I met many people who could say something similar and didn't know how to write a Python for loop.

patientzero 3y ago
For someone as described being able to do loops in python is equivalent to expecting a theoretical mathematician to be good at accounting.. It is kind of a coincidence if these people write code on the side or do their own accounting.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  Not really, not in ML. You can't do anything in ML without writing some kind of program, even if it just glues together sklearn or pytorch calls. I'm not talking about advanced algorithm knowledge, but merely being able to cobble together the kind of program their CV implies they do on a daily basis. Again, I don't know if it applies to the Reddit poster, but I sure met people like this. One example, not an academic, but someone who claimed he "revolutionized" his Important Department at Big Corp using ML and NNs, and didn't know what gradient descent is. I don't mean he couldn't implement it on the spot, rather be never heard of it, and couldn't understand when I described it to him. Another one, PhD candidate in computer science at top-10 uni, self-described "expert" in C++, could not, indeed, write a C++ for loop over an integer range. Or indeed a for loop in any language of his choice - he had known, but forgot. He had a number of publications that sounded sane. Anyway, if someone is an ML academic, wants an industry job, and can't code enough, that would probably lead to the described outcome. And again, I'm not jumping to that conclusion.
  - patientzero 3y ago
    It seems to me like you've just described hiring a mathematician on arithmetic skill. If you hire this way of course many will use code practice tools to pretend they are juniors or incapable of delegating since most of their time should be occupied with less low level ways of doing things or assigning things. I can go a long time without writing for loops, the better I know the surrounding tools in an ecosystem, the less I accidentally reinvent something with details that low. I don't remember all that much about pandas, but enough to try to use it to do a matrix operation instead of writing the for loop if I were assigned a ML task for some reason.