12 ms·

I honestly think a lot of hacker types really do live in a bubble where they think it's still 2000, Microsoft is still the same evil company they were, Apple st

by axefrog 14y ago

I honestly think a lot of hacker types really do live in a bubble where they think it's still 2000, Microsoft is still the same evil company they were, Apple still can do no wrong, most people now use Macs "if they know what's good for them", RoR, node.js and Python are really the only valid technologies for back end development and so forth. Certainly plenty of folks out there using the aforementioned technologies are more worldly than my previous statement would suggest, but there are still an irritating number of developers living in the past who haven't really got a realistic view of the technology landscape as it exists today, in 2012. I also notice this on various high profile podcasts that from time to time downplay anything from Microsoft as having any value these days, despite not really having had recent first hand experience of what's available. I prefer Chrome myself, but supporting IE9 really isn't that hard, and suggesting otherwise is FUD. The landscape has changed in the last five years. Hopefully over time, especially as the landscape continues to change, the antifanboys will realise this and update their views.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
IE9 is not that bad. To prove to myself that it was not, I forced myself to use it as my main browser for a while. It was not painful at all. It had reasonable speed, and although lacking some CSS3 features that are nice, it is generally a decent browser. And it runs one of my Canvas demos much more smoothly than Chrome or Firefox, since it hardware accelerates canvas rendering.
- drhowarddrfine 14y ago
  IE9 is bad. Lacking CSS3 features is not "OK". Lacking WebGL is not "OK". The only reason it runs web sites to your satisfaction is due to the hard work of developers beating their heads against the wall to make IE9 perform correctly. IE is the worst browser on the planet and always will be.
- nadvorny 14y ago
  It's not that IE9 is bad. It's that IE is not only IE9. It's IE7,8,9 and 10. Testing on all IE versions takes as much time as testing on all other browsers. They all have their unique issues. And you can't run all of them on one machine safely. And you usually use IE7 as the least common denominator, thus sacrificing functionality.
  - ethermal 14y ago
    VMs run all of them crazy easily. And using unity you can have all versions on your desktop at once and open. I do it every day. My default browser is IE 9, so when i launch I always launch in IE 9 do all of my testing debugging there, almost never even look at another browser until it works 100% there. Then my browser for surfing is Opera, all others for testing.
  - derekerdmann 14y ago
    Are you sure you can't run them on one machine safely? Press F12 and press the "Browser Mode" button. That covers everything through IE 7 in about 3 seconds.
  - jamietre 14y ago
    "It's that IE is not only IE9. It's IE7,8,9 and 10" That's ridiculous. There are about the same number of people using Firefox 3.6 as there are using IE6 and 7. So how come you aren't bitching out Firefox? So don't test on IE 6-8 if you don't care, but does the existence of old browsers mean that you write off every product they've made since then?
- CoffeeDregs 14y ago
  I guess that I'm bummed to hear that the standard we support is "not that bad". The internet and the "web" were built on incredible-thinking. Yes: > "it'll take nuclear strike!"; No: > "it works XX% of the time..."
givan 14y ago
After the IE 6 pain no web developer will forgive microsoft for the time lost and pain. They test for IE only because lots of people use it or because their jobs require this, nobody likes IE, it always had bugs, was insecure and most important non standard. IE9 is closer to normal, but microsoft lost is trust, they had the chance to change something much earlier and they did nothing, they are only acting now because IE market share drops fast.
- axefrog 14y ago
  Oh come on. Microsoft is not some horrible uncle who did you a great wrong and needs "forgiving". It's a company. The people who work there come and go, change departments and so forth. Yeah, sure, the people who worked in the highest positions back in the day employed some shitty tactics way back when, but times have changed, many of those people have moved on and much of the company's outlook has shifted significantly. Holding an emotional grudge against a transient, evolving collective is stupid. I don't think everything they put out is great, I would love to see Ballmer step down and give someone else a turn (someone with some actual passion perhaps), but IE6 was a product of the mindset at the time, and times have changed. Get over it.
  - EdiX 14y ago
    Yeah, sure, the people who worked in the highest positions back in the day employed some shitty tactics way back when Like not allowing other browser on some devices, requiring locked down BIOS, patent lawsuits against competitors. Oh, wait, that all happened this year.
    - axefrog 14y ago
      Yeah, they should be more like Apple and make it so you can install whatever you wan... oh wait...
      - EdiX 14y ago
        I didn't say Apple is better.
matt312 14y ago
You're right, supporting IE9 isn't hard at all. IE8 is the problem. It's amazing how many people still use 8 -- and it's because of corporations who are slow to update software. The thing that annoys me is that Microsoft knows that businesses will use the current version of IE for many years to come, so they should be as cutting edge as possible, but they don't seem to care.
- RobAtticus 14y ago
  The reason for a large IE8 contingent is because its the latest version of XP will support. The fact that businesses are using a TWELVE YEAR OLD operating system is the main issue here. Sure, maybe they could've made IE9 work with XP, but if people aren't even willing to update their OS once a decade, are we really sure they'll upgrade their browser?
- danssig 14y ago
  8??? The company I'm at is still on 6!
matt312 14y ago
You're right, supporting IE9 isn't hard at all. IE8 is the problem. It's amazing how many people still use 8 -- and it's because of corporations who are slow to update software. The thing that annoys me is that Microsoft knows that businesses will use the current version of IE for many years to come, so they should be as cutting edge as possible, but they don't seem to care.
dlikhten 14y ago
This is a lot of FUD style arguments please let me elaborate: a) Developing on windows is absolutely attrocious. If MS wants me to develop on windows, PUT SOME FUCKING EFFORT INTO IT. b) Developing for Chrome, I support ALL operating systems. c) Developing for FF, I support ALL operating systems. d) Developing for Opera, I support ALL operating systems. e) Developing for Safari, I support OSX, Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8. f) Anything webkit related is supporting the iPad AND Android Tablets, and iPhone, and Android. Even without a special experience. g) Developing for Mobile is an effort. Unfortunately. If you want a truly mobile experience. Let's talk about IE now: IE 9 is only supported IN WINDOWS 7. That's right, no XP, an OS which every other browser other than microsoft's support. So there. If I allow IE users to use my site, I don't care if I make a giant "we don't fucking support IE" banner, people will expect it to work. And I will be the bad guy. If they visit my site and no IE support "please take 20 seconds to install chrome". The business will dictate if those people not willing to install chrome/chrome frame (no admin access required) are important enough to support. Now... ITS 20-fucking-12 and windows still has the biggest piece of absolute shit terminal tool possible, with no alternative in sight. Furthermore terminal programs that work in linux, work in mac, so you get REAL developer tools. There is nothing decent like that on windows. Many things I need for my program to run DOES NOT WORK IN WINDOWS, so it's on MS' head to make them work. Apple saw that having a fully custom OS meant developer alienation. That is why they made OSX. People immediately praised it for it's ability to run dev tools, and developers were happy. Now. Apple does evil. Apple is 2x as evil as MS ever was or will be. However Apple currently innovates (or did). However I can't argue with the fact that they have good fucking hardware. Developing on windows means piece of garbage hardware, shitty laptops till maybe a few months ago, who still cant fucking get touchpads right. YES TOUCHPADS SUCK ON WINDOWS STILL, 2012! On mac, touchpads are pleasant. There I said it, Windows is a terrible operating system from a user experience perspective, and that includes hardware. So now why would I support IE? Look at my list up top. Please tell me what MS does to make me want to support IE? What benefits I gain? I pretty much only get users who don't know left from right mouse buttons, and unless I'm facebook I probably don't care about them anyways. Edit: I am in no way saying IE 9 is bad. In fact IE 9 has multi-process, something I wish firefox implemented already. Performance is good enough for most websites. And the W3C support is up to par with normal browsers, though still a bit lagging.
sjs382 14y ago
> I prefer Chrome myself, but supporting IE9 really isn't that hard, and suggesting otherwise is FUD. This.
CoffeeDregs 14y ago
For me the point is less about: IE is no longer that bad. It's true that IE9 and IE10 are much better and supporting IE is no longer a 2x web-dev penalty, but that's not the point. The point is: when the vampire is exhibiting weakness you drive a stake through its heart. The vampire turned a bunch of your fellow townspeople into vampires; saying the bite is no longer so bad doesn't mean that the vampire is now to be respected. It's also not about punishing Microsoft. [Sure, the warm glow of schadenfreude feels nice.] It is about demonstrating to the tech community the long term costs of SHITTING IN OUR SANDBOX. Those of us who were developing web sites during the IE6 days want to show Google, Facebook, Apple, Zynga, Adobe, etc what happens when you Embrace and Extend web standards. You don't know frustration until you get your website all sorted in FF 2, then open up IE 6 only to see a completely jacked website, only to realize you basically have no web development tools for IE 6 and you'll be spending the next 2 days blibdly fiddling with margins, padding, how-to-force-zoom, etc.
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  There were (bad) dev tools for IE6. Fact is, after a few months you'd know exactly what could go wrong, and fix everything in a day. Still extra work, but not that terrible. Sometimes I miss playing that game :)
- ethermal 14y ago
  So why would you sort it in FF then open IE why wouldn't you start with IE then go to FF. I really think you are starting in the wrong spot.
  - CoffeeDregs 14y ago
    The tooling around FF was/is remarkably better than that with IE, so I always found it easier to start there head to IE than to start by groping blindly in IE.
- robertpateii 14y ago
  So you're saying that it's not about punishing the criminals, that it's about deterring people from becoming criminals. It's arguable if that kind of policy is effective. Also, it comes across like folks actually are still mad about it.
billpatrianakos 14y ago
I feel like people are lying to the,selves about IE9. It's still not good enough! The key words you used were that hard implying you know it's still just a little tough. Ever try to get a gradient to work in IE9? First off, when it works it doesn't render anything like it renders in any other browser, and second, you still have to jump through hoops or all your gradients will be blue even if they're not meant to be blue. Ever had to mess with progIdMicrosoft.blah.anotherThing("someMoreStuffHere");? I have. It's why IE9 still sucks. Saying IE9 is up to snuff is like saying your scumbag uncle is cool now because instead of shooting heroin all day long he's just a raging alcoholic. I mean, yeah IE improved significantly but when you remember IE6 - 8 it's easy to look like you've improved. Are we praising IE because it just doesn't suck as much? Come on, every other browser on earth has been running circles around it for years and it's still playing catchup and it just refuses to ditch that whole "progId" thing. They go around saying "well, we do what the other guys do except we made it impossible to remember or comprehend how to do in our browser". And I like how the guy who hasn't had to support IE for a few versions writes a post about how we're lazy. It would've meant a lot more coming from someone with experience. Recent experience, that is.
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  Nobody is saying IE9 is great, but you can't deny it's good enough for most apps. It's fast, has a decent javascript engine, a hardware-accelerated canvas, some HTML5 support. Their greatest sin was leaving out text-shadow and gradients, but IE10 is just around the corner. Even if it was complete crap, it has a 30-50% share, you can't justify killing off that much business unless you develop a Mac/Linux-centric or browser-specific app/site.
  - jopt 14y ago
    Be careful with market share numbers. If you use the generic market share, your implicitly assuming your user base is representative of the general online population. That's rarely the case, and it usually worth using more specific statistics even if your app isn't "Mac-centric."
  - billpatrianakos 14y ago
rickmb 14y ago
I tried to encourage my team to test better against IE by creating a nice setup on which they could easily use all relevant IE versions. After two days of struggling with all the insanity of Windows licensing, installing and the crap support for running older / multiple versions of IE I've seen more than enough of Microsoft for the next five years. Nothing has changed since 2000. Just setting up the tools for supporting IE is nightmare.
- perssontm 14y ago
  Just get an account at www.crossbrowsertesting.com . I did around 2 years back I think, and its really convenient. you vnc to whatever os/browser combo you like and test it out. They have a demo for local testing as well, but I've always used a reverse ssh tunnel for that. Note, Im not affiliated with crossbrowsertesting.com in any way.
  - iandanforth 14y ago
    I have also enjoyed the Scout service from Saucelabs. It is a fully in-browser experience. They do all the VM work and stream you the screen. Full Disclosure: I am friends with one of the founders and was in a promotional video for saucelabs.
- axefrog 14y ago
  What I have trouble with is why that's valid when on the reverse side of the coin, one must literally buy Apple hardware to test in an Apple environment.
  - Draiken 14y ago
    You obviously never had to work on a huge project that has to support IE browsers. My company has to do that and we spend countless hours on IE specific tasks. It works on IE10? great! I don't know if it will on IE11. Or if microsoft will find another way to break open standarts. If we had a choice of not supporting IE, we'd do it. Not because of Mac, not because of Linux. Because of IE and nothing else.
  - 14y ago
vbigham 14y ago
Absolutely. IE still has tons of users in the world, and it seems a joke to not invite them to the party. It doesn't really bother me as much if they change the features per browser platform, but when you visit a site and it browser sniffs and comes back with a blanket message "Browser not supported please upgrade." that's when I know that the dev is a lazy piece of shit. They don't even bother to try to let it degrade so that people can still access the content, they just shut it off. Rediculous and immature is what this is, why would you put effort into being such a hater especially when its your customers that are being stopped? I suggest that we windows users boycott the sites that simply block IE. If it removes features I would skip it as well. Not supporting IE shows a lack of commitment to your users. As a user, I object to such half-assed notions. Its already bad enough with the entire dev community telling their users what they must do and how they must act. There is really no reason to be blocking IE10 at this point (yes I've seen it and was shocked and amazed that the fool would actually do that).

by axefrog 14y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

IE9 is not that bad. To prove to myself that it was not, I forced myself to use it as my main browser for a while. It was not painful at all. It had reasonable speed, and although lacking some CSS3 features that are nice, it is generally a decent browser. And it runs one of my Canvas demos much more smoothly than Chrome or Firefox, since it hardware accelerates canvas rendering.

drhowarddrfine 14y ago
IE9 is bad. Lacking CSS3 features is not "OK". Lacking WebGL is not "OK". The only reason it runs web sites to your satisfaction is due to the hard work of developers beating their heads against the wall to make IE9 perform correctly. IE is the worst browser on the planet and always will be.
nadvorny 14y ago
It's not that IE9 is bad. It's that IE is not only IE9. It's IE7,8,9 and 10. Testing on all IE versions takes as much time as testing on all other browsers. They all have their unique issues. And you can't run all of them on one machine safely. And you usually use IE7 as the least common denominator, thus sacrificing functionality.
- ethermal 14y ago
  VMs run all of them crazy easily. And using unity you can have all versions on your desktop at once and open. I do it every day. My default browser is IE 9, so when i launch I always launch in IE 9 do all of my testing debugging there, almost never even look at another browser until it works 100% there. Then my browser for surfing is Opera, all others for testing.
- derekerdmann 14y ago
  Are you sure you can't run them on one machine safely? Press F12 and press the "Browser Mode" button. That covers everything through IE 7 in about 3 seconds.
- jamietre 14y ago
  "It's that IE is not only IE9. It's IE7,8,9 and 10" That's ridiculous. There are about the same number of people using Firefox 3.6 as there are using IE6 and 7. So how come you aren't bitching out Firefox? So don't test on IE 6-8 if you don't care, but does the existence of old browsers mean that you write off every product they've made since then?
CoffeeDregs 14y ago
I guess that I'm bummed to hear that the standard we support is "not that bad". The internet and the "web" were built on incredible-thinking. Yes: > "it'll take nuclear strike!"; No: > "it works XX% of the time..."

givan 14y ago

After the IE 6 pain no web developer will forgive microsoft for the time lost and pain. They test for IE only because lots of people use it or because their jobs require this, nobody likes IE, it always had bugs, was insecure and most important non standard. IE9 is closer to normal, but microsoft lost is trust, they had the chance to change something much earlier and they did nothing, they are only acting now because IE market share drops fast.

axefrog 14y ago
Oh come on. Microsoft is not some horrible uncle who did you a great wrong and needs "forgiving". It's a company. The people who work there come and go, change departments and so forth. Yeah, sure, the people who worked in the highest positions back in the day employed some shitty tactics way back when, but times have changed, many of those people have moved on and much of the company's outlook has shifted significantly. Holding an emotional grudge against a transient, evolving collective is stupid. I don't think everything they put out is great, I would love to see Ballmer step down and give someone else a turn (someone with some actual passion perhaps), but IE6 was a product of the mindset at the time, and times have changed. Get over it.
- EdiX 14y ago
  Yeah, sure, the people who worked in the highest positions back in the day employed some shitty tactics way back when Like not allowing other browser on some devices, requiring locked down BIOS, patent lawsuits against competitors. Oh, wait, that all happened this year.
  - axefrog 14y ago
    Yeah, they should be more like Apple and make it so you can install whatever you wan... oh wait...
    - EdiX 14y ago
      I didn't say Apple is better.

matt312 14y ago

You're right, supporting IE9 isn't hard at all. IE8 is the problem. It's amazing how many people still use 8 -- and it's because of corporations who are slow to update software. The thing that annoys me is that Microsoft knows that businesses will use the current version of IE for many years to come, so they should be as cutting edge as possible, but they don't seem to care.

RobAtticus 14y ago
The reason for a large IE8 contingent is because its the latest version of XP will support. The fact that businesses are using a TWELVE YEAR OLD operating system is the main issue here. Sure, maybe they could've made IE9 work with XP, but if people aren't even willing to update their OS once a decade, are we really sure they'll upgrade their browser?
danssig 14y ago
8??? The company I'm at is still on 6!

matt312 14y ago

dlikhten 14y ago

This is a lot of FUD style arguments please let me elaborate: a) Developing on windows is absolutely attrocious. If MS wants me to develop on windows, PUT SOME FUCKING EFFORT INTO IT. b) Developing for Chrome, I support ALL operating systems. c) Developing for FF, I support ALL operating systems. d) Developing for Opera, I support ALL operating systems. e) Developing for Safari, I support OSX, Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8. f) Anything webkit related is supporting the iPad AND Android Tablets, and iPhone, and Android. Even without a special experience. g) Developing for Mobile is an effort. Unfortunately. If you want a truly mobile experience. Let's talk about IE now: IE 9 is only supported IN WINDOWS 7. That's right, no XP, an OS which every other browser other than microsoft's support. So there. If I allow IE users to use my site, I don't care if I make a giant "we don't fucking support IE" banner, people will expect it to work. And I will be the bad guy. If they visit my site and no IE support "please take 20 seconds to install chrome". The business will dictate if those people not willing to install chrome/chrome frame (no admin access required) are important enough to support. Now... ITS 20-fucking-12 and windows still has the biggest piece of absolute shit terminal tool possible, with no alternative in sight. Furthermore terminal programs that work in linux, work in mac, so you get REAL developer tools. There is nothing decent like that on windows. Many things I need for my program to run DOES NOT WORK IN WINDOWS, so it's on MS' head to make them work. Apple saw that having a fully custom OS meant developer alienation. That is why they made OSX. People immediately praised it for it's ability to run dev tools, and developers were happy. Now. Apple does evil. Apple is 2x as evil as MS ever was or will be. However Apple currently innovates (or did). However I can't argue with the fact that they have good fucking hardware. Developing on windows means piece of garbage hardware, shitty laptops till maybe a few months ago, who still cant fucking get touchpads right. YES TOUCHPADS SUCK ON WINDOWS STILL, 2012! On mac, touchpads are pleasant. There I said it, Windows is a terrible operating system from a user experience perspective, and that includes hardware. So now why would I support IE? Look at my list up top. Please tell me what MS does to make me want to support IE? What benefits I gain? I pretty much only get users who don't know left from right mouse buttons, and unless I'm facebook I probably don't care about them anyways. Edit: I am in no way saying IE 9 is bad. In fact IE 9 has multi-process, something I wish firefox implemented already. Performance is good enough for most websites. And the W3C support is up to par with normal browsers, though still a bit lagging.

sjs382 14y ago

> I prefer Chrome myself, but supporting IE9 really isn't that hard, and suggesting otherwise is FUD. This.

CoffeeDregs 14y ago

For me the point is less about: IE is no longer that bad. It's true that IE9 and IE10 are much better and supporting IE is no longer a 2x web-dev penalty, but that's not the point. The point is: when the vampire is exhibiting weakness you drive a stake through its heart. The vampire turned a bunch of your fellow townspeople into vampires; saying the bite is no longer so bad doesn't mean that the vampire is now to be respected. It's also not about punishing Microsoft. [Sure, the warm glow of schadenfreude feels nice.] It is about demonstrating to the tech community the long term costs of SHITTING IN OUR SANDBOX. Those of us who were developing web sites during the IE6 days want to show Google, Facebook, Apple, Zynga, Adobe, etc what happens when you Embrace and Extend web standards. You don't know frustration until you get your website all sorted in FF 2, then open up IE 6 only to see a completely jacked website, only to realize you basically have no web development tools for IE 6 and you'll be spending the next 2 days blibdly fiddling with margins, padding, how-to-force-zoom, etc.

ricardobeat 14y ago
There were (bad) dev tools for IE6. Fact is, after a few months you'd know exactly what could go wrong, and fix everything in a day. Still extra work, but not that terrible. Sometimes I miss playing that game :)
ethermal 14y ago
So why would you sort it in FF then open IE why wouldn't you start with IE then go to FF. I really think you are starting in the wrong spot.
- CoffeeDregs 14y ago
  The tooling around FF was/is remarkably better than that with IE, so I always found it easier to start there head to IE than to start by groping blindly in IE.
robertpateii 14y ago
So you're saying that it's not about punishing the criminals, that it's about deterring people from becoming criminals. It's arguable if that kind of policy is effective. Also, it comes across like folks actually are still mad about it.

billpatrianakos 14y ago

I feel like people are lying to the,selves about IE9. It's still not good enough! The key words you used were that hard implying you know it's still just a little tough. Ever try to get a gradient to work in IE9? First off, when it works it doesn't render anything like it renders in any other browser, and second, you still have to jump through hoops or all your gradients will be blue even if they're not meant to be blue. Ever had to mess with progIdMicrosoft.blah.anotherThing("someMoreStuffHere");? I have. It's why IE9 still sucks. Saying IE9 is up to snuff is like saying your scumbag uncle is cool now because instead of shooting heroin all day long he's just a raging alcoholic. I mean, yeah IE improved significantly but when you remember IE6 - 8 it's easy to look like you've improved. Are we praising IE because it just doesn't suck as much? Come on, every other browser on earth has been running circles around it for years and it's still playing catchup and it just refuses to ditch that whole "progId" thing. They go around saying "well, we do what the other guys do except we made it impossible to remember or comprehend how to do in our browser". And I like how the guy who hasn't had to support IE for a few versions writes a post about how we're lazy. It would've meant a lot more coming from someone with experience. Recent experience, that is.

ricardobeat 14y ago
Nobody is saying IE9 is great, but you can't deny it's good enough for most apps. It's fast, has a decent javascript engine, a hardware-accelerated canvas, some HTML5 support. Their greatest sin was leaving out text-shadow and gradients, but IE10 is just around the corner. Even if it was complete crap, it has a 30-50% share, you can't justify killing off that much business unless you develop a Mac/Linux-centric or browser-specific app/site.
- jopt 14y ago
  Be careful with market share numbers. If you use the generic market share, your implicitly assuming your user base is representative of the general online population. That's rarely the case, and it usually worth using more specific statistics even if your app isn't "Mac-centric."
- billpatrianakos 14y ago

rickmb 14y ago

I tried to encourage my team to test better against IE by creating a nice setup on which they could easily use all relevant IE versions. After two days of struggling with all the insanity of Windows licensing, installing and the crap support for running older / multiple versions of IE I've seen more than enough of Microsoft for the next five years. Nothing has changed since 2000. Just setting up the tools for supporting IE is nightmare.

perssontm 14y ago
Just get an account at www.crossbrowsertesting.com . I did around 2 years back I think, and its really convenient. you vnc to whatever os/browser combo you like and test it out. They have a demo for local testing as well, but I've always used a reverse ssh tunnel for that. Note, Im not affiliated with crossbrowsertesting.com in any way.
- iandanforth 14y ago
  I have also enjoyed the Scout service from Saucelabs. It is a fully in-browser experience. They do all the VM work and stream you the screen. Full Disclosure: I am friends with one of the founders and was in a promotional video for saucelabs.
axefrog 14y ago
What I have trouble with is why that's valid when on the reverse side of the coin, one must literally buy Apple hardware to test in an Apple environment.
- Draiken 14y ago
  You obviously never had to work on a huge project that has to support IE browsers. My company has to do that and we spend countless hours on IE specific tasks. It works on IE10? great! I don't know if it will on IE11. Or if microsoft will find another way to break open standarts. If we had a choice of not supporting IE, we'd do it. Not because of Mac, not because of Linux. Because of IE and nothing else.
- 14y ago

vbigham 14y ago

Absolutely. IE still has tons of users in the world, and it seems a joke to not invite them to the party. It doesn't really bother me as much if they change the features per browser platform, but when you visit a site and it browser sniffs and comes back with a blanket message "Browser not supported please upgrade." that's when I know that the dev is a lazy piece of shit. They don't even bother to try to let it degrade so that people can still access the content, they just shut it off. Rediculous and immature is what this is, why would you put effort into being such a hater especially when its your customers that are being stopped? I suggest that we windows users boycott the sites that simply block IE. If it removes features I would skip it as well. Not supporting IE shows a lack of commitment to your users. As a user, I object to such half-assed notions. Its already bad enough with the entire dev community telling their users what they must do and how they must act. There is really no reason to be blocking IE10 at this point (yes I've seen it and was shocked and amazed that the fool would actually do that).