5 ms·

I honestly think a lot of hate against fast fashion is from the fast fashion brands that still do brick and mortar stores. H&M has all interest to have us thin

by herbst 3y ago

I honestly think a lot of hate against fast fashion is from the fast fashion brands that still do brick and mortar stores. H&M has all interest to have us think their clothes are somehow less crap and therefore it's ok to pay 5 times as much and have WAY less to choose from. Same for any brand really except very few clothing brands that follow a different approach. Edit:// To the downvoters. What's the difference between H&M and Shein other than the price and Sortiment size? I simply don't get where we draw the line.

phantomathkg 3y ago
> Edit:// To the downvoters. What's the difference between H&M and Shein other than the price and Sortiment size? I simply don't get where we draw the line. At least H&M won't poison you or the environment https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/56979/taking-the-shine-off-shein-hazardous-chemicals-in-shein-products-break-eu-regulations-new-report-finds/ https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/56979...
- truculent 3y ago
  They also don’t use Uyghur slave labour, as far as I’m aware
  - herbst 3y ago
    [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/06/substantial-volume-of-clothing-tied-to-uyghur-forced-labour-entering-eu-says-study-china https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/06/substantial-vo... Guardian says they do. Again not saying something is good, but blaming shein and wearing H&M is pathetic.
    - truculent 3y ago
      Ah, that’s really disappointing (although not a surprise, really). I know they took some heat in 2021 for calling out Uyghur labour, but I suppose actually riding it from their supply chain is too difficult and too expensive.
- herbst 3y ago
  Do you have a study that actually compares to H&M? This seem to focus only on Shein and doesn't answer the question. I don't see why the same factories, using the same work force and the same base material would lead to different toxicity. A little Google foo also confirms that H&M doesn't have a positive image for their Green washing and fake eco labels either. It's the same level of quality. Including toxic waste, child work, forced labor and all.
  - phantomathkg 3y ago
    I am going to do a full due diligence here. but It is easy to see that there are two brands here, H&M will have to succumb to pressure from the west or their physical shops will die, Shein doesn't as they are having a feast on Gen Z's attention economy. Who will be easier to get beaten into the less horrible business to the earth?
- jesterson 3y ago
  > At least H&M won't poison you or the environment The only difference between H&M and Shein is that H&M invests in "green" PR, while SHEIN doesn't (yet). So some people believe there is a difference in a way both companies conduct business.
  - phantomathkg 3y ago
    So are you saying we should see H&M and Shein the same? The world is full of bad apples, you can either go starving, or choose the least bad one.
    - jesterson 3y ago
      Everyone tends to see what they like. Personally I don’t see any difference, besides shein having slightly better fabric quality
  - herbst 3y ago
    Actually there are those semi awkward clips where shein invited a few western influencers to show them their green, safe and happy factories not to long ago. They are on it :)
    - jesterson 3y ago
      Ah, they are catching up, smart :) Need to give them few years, so “green” shenanigans grow to h&m level :)
      - danlugo92 3y ago
        Yeah it's all shenanogigangs all the way down if you dig about out it
kergonath 3y ago
> I honestly think a lot of hate against fast fashion is from the fast fashion brands that still do brick and mortar stores. No. The concept of fast fashion is the problem. The slave and child labour, carelessness about environmental effects both during production and transport, poor quality clothes that release microplastics and need to be replaced much more often because they last a month. The whole thing. > Edit:// To the downvoters. What's the difference between H&M and Shein other than the price and Sortiment size? I simply don't get where we draw the line. Why do you need to draw a line? This was your premise and your assumption that “a lot of hate against fast fashion is from the fast fashion brands that still do brick and mortar stores”. It does not match my experience at all, or what is in mainstream media.
- herbst 3y ago
  Yes! I agree on so many levels. But at the current state of things people draw the line somewhere fictional and blame fast fashion while wearing fast fashion. There is no indicator that shein is either worse or better than H&M or Adidas. All acting really hazardous to their environment and using forced labor. There is literally no number I can find that would even suggest that H&M or Adidas are doing less bad to the environment. Adidas might has a durability standard that makes it more worthy but that's not true for Zara, H&M, Shein and all other non sporty fast fashion brands. And don't get me started how many 'luxury' brands use the exact same production chain. > Why do you need to draw a line? I worry because people hate on each other while all doing the exact same shit. Most people can't afford fair fashion at the current market. Many who could afford it still choose to buy bad brands. This is where we need change, not blame shein but happily buy fake eco from h&m and think this is somehow better. This won't change the market to the better.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    > But at the current state of things people draw the line somewhere fictional and blame fast fashion while wearing fast fashion. Indeed. Part of the problem is that nobody wants to spend money, so cheap clothes seem like a good bargain. We just don’t see the real cost because we have really poor estimates for how long these clothes will last. That’s typically something that needs to be solved by regulation as the people by themselves won’t turn away. > There is literally no number I can find that would even suggest that H&M or Adidas are doing less bad to the environment. Definitely! Now, there are differences at the edges, like old-school retailers using less harmful transport modes than plane and contributing to local communities through their physical presence (jobs and taxes). But yes, the core issue is the same. > This won't change the market to the better. Yes, people are getting squeezed and disposable income is not improving. Blaming them for buying cheap stuff so they have some money to do something nice is counterproductive and reeks of elitism.

by herbst 3y ago

phantomathkg 3y ago

> Edit:// To the downvoters. What's the difference between H&M and Shein other than the price and Sortiment size? I simply don't get where we draw the line. At least H&M won't poison you or the environment https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/56979/taking-the-shine-off-shein-hazardous-chemicals-in-shein-products-break-eu-regulations-new-report-finds/ https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/56979...

truculent 3y ago
They also don’t use Uyghur slave labour, as far as I’m aware
- herbst 3y ago
  [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/06/substantial-volume-of-clothing-tied-to-uyghur-forced-labour-entering-eu-says-study-china https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/06/substantial-vo... Guardian says they do. Again not saying something is good, but blaming shein and wearing H&M is pathetic.
  - truculent 3y ago
    Ah, that’s really disappointing (although not a surprise, really). I know they took some heat in 2021 for calling out Uyghur labour, but I suppose actually riding it from their supply chain is too difficult and too expensive.
herbst 3y ago
Do you have a study that actually compares to H&M? This seem to focus only on Shein and doesn't answer the question. I don't see why the same factories, using the same work force and the same base material would lead to different toxicity. A little Google foo also confirms that H&M doesn't have a positive image for their Green washing and fake eco labels either. It's the same level of quality. Including toxic waste, child work, forced labor and all.
- phantomathkg 3y ago
  I am going to do a full due diligence here. but It is easy to see that there are two brands here, H&M will have to succumb to pressure from the west or their physical shops will die, Shein doesn't as they are having a feast on Gen Z's attention economy. Who will be easier to get beaten into the less horrible business to the earth?
jesterson 3y ago
> At least H&M won't poison you or the environment The only difference between H&M and Shein is that H&M invests in "green" PR, while SHEIN doesn't (yet). So some people believe there is a difference in a way both companies conduct business.
- phantomathkg 3y ago
  So are you saying we should see H&M and Shein the same? The world is full of bad apples, you can either go starving, or choose the least bad one.
  - jesterson 3y ago
    Everyone tends to see what they like. Personally I don’t see any difference, besides shein having slightly better fabric quality
- herbst 3y ago
  Actually there are those semi awkward clips where shein invited a few western influencers to show them their green, safe and happy factories not to long ago. They are on it :)
  - jesterson 3y ago
    Ah, they are catching up, smart :) Need to give them few years, so “green” shenanigans grow to h&m level :)
    - danlugo92 3y ago
      Yeah it's all shenanogigangs all the way down if you dig about out it

kergonath 3y ago

> I honestly think a lot of hate against fast fashion is from the fast fashion brands that still do brick and mortar stores. No. The concept of fast fashion is the problem. The slave and child labour, carelessness about environmental effects both during production and transport, poor quality clothes that release microplastics and need to be replaced much more often because they last a month. The whole thing. > Edit:// To the downvoters. What's the difference between H&M and Shein other than the price and Sortiment size? I simply don't get where we draw the line. Why do you need to draw a line? This was your premise and your assumption that “a lot of hate against fast fashion is from the fast fashion brands that still do brick and mortar stores”. It does not match my experience at all, or what is in mainstream media.

herbst 3y ago
Yes! I agree on so many levels. But at the current state of things people draw the line somewhere fictional and blame fast fashion while wearing fast fashion. There is no indicator that shein is either worse or better than H&M or Adidas. All acting really hazardous to their environment and using forced labor. There is literally no number I can find that would even suggest that H&M or Adidas are doing less bad to the environment. Adidas might has a durability standard that makes it more worthy but that's not true for Zara, H&M, Shein and all other non sporty fast fashion brands. And don't get me started how many 'luxury' brands use the exact same production chain. > Why do you need to draw a line? I worry because people hate on each other while all doing the exact same shit. Most people can't afford fair fashion at the current market. Many who could afford it still choose to buy bad brands. This is where we need change, not blame shein but happily buy fake eco from h&m and think this is somehow better. This won't change the market to the better.
- kergonath 3y ago
  > But at the current state of things people draw the line somewhere fictional and blame fast fashion while wearing fast fashion. Indeed. Part of the problem is that nobody wants to spend money, so cheap clothes seem like a good bargain. We just don’t see the real cost because we have really poor estimates for how long these clothes will last. That’s typically something that needs to be solved by regulation as the people by themselves won’t turn away. > There is literally no number I can find that would even suggest that H&M or Adidas are doing less bad to the environment. Definitely! Now, there are differences at the edges, like old-school retailers using less harmful transport modes than plane and contributing to local communities through their physical presence (jobs and taxes). But yes, the core issue is the same. > This won't change the market to the better. Yes, people are getting squeezed and disposable income is not improving. Blaming them for buying cheap stuff so they have some money to do something nice is counterproductive and reeks of elitism.