3 ms·

Your points have all been addressed before. See this presentation about the growth in population in 3rd world countries and how immigration is completely incap

by codexb 3y ago

Your points have all been addressed before. See this presentation about the growth in population in 3rd world countries and how immigration is completely incapable of addressing it in any meaningful way -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE The growth rates and population amounts are simply too high for us to effectively solve the problems of population growth with massive, intercontinental migration. You also can't solve societal and cultural problems (of which the 3rd world and developing world has many) by massive migrations of those populations into first world countries. In effect, you end up simply importing those problems. There's plenty of history and evidence for this. There's never been a case in history where the population of a society is massively overtaken by foreigners and that society hasn't changed dramatically. Cultures and societies are not interchangeable. They aren't equal. It's not racist to say this. You can find undesirable beliefs and traditions among all races and cultures. You cannot fix problematic cultures and societies by trying to emigrate people out of those societies faster than they can produce them. It's far easier to import and export ideas and cultures than it is to migrate people.

zoomy 3y ago
You don't need to disavow racism. It's perfectly fine for a people to want and have a homeland .
- codexb 3y ago
  Yes, but that would more appropriately be called cultural identity or nationalism, it isn't race-based. The English and the French and many other European countries each have very strong cultural identities. The French would equally oppose abandoning their own culture for English, or Japanese, or African cultures.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > but that would more appropriately be called cultural identity or nationalism, it isn't race-based Correct. Unfortunately, the modern Internet meaning of the world "racism" encompasses everything, from actual racism, through ethnic, cultural, national differences, all the way to differences of opinion. In their original comment, 'api seems to have been using this extended meaning. (My attempt at understanding this phenomenon: US is a boiling pot of nationalities, cultures and races from around the world; those distinctions end up blending together. In contrast, the rest of the world, and Europe in particular, had and has geographically-separated nations and cultures, and much less local population variety.) For example, the reason documentaries in the 80s or 90s would, "When they wanted to convey the problem they always showed the same sorts of shots: seething hordes of mostly black and brown people in places like India and Africa. Meanwhile the scientists and other experts interviewed to argue the Malthusian case were almost entirely white men." - that's, IMO, not because of some innate racist views. Rather, it was showing what was familiar and accurate - the academic world in the US was predominantly male and white, while India and Africa were where international aid went. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with what the audience recognizes as the major high population societies suffering from starvation-level poverty.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
> You can find undesirable beliefs and traditions among all races and cultures. You cannot fix problematic cultures and societies by trying to emigrate people out of those societies faster than they can produce them. It's far easier to import and export ideas and cultures than it is to migrate people. Not only that. As you said, "cultures and societies are not interchangeable". Even beliefs and traditions that are, on their face, perfectly fine, can be a source of fear for the culture that ends up importing them. The culture you live in is yours, you feel safe and at home in it[0]. It's understandable to fear that, should the culture change too quickly, you may suddenly start feeling like an outsider, an alien, in your own home. You can adapt to changes only so fast. -- [0] - Mostly. Everyone has some smaller or bigger issues with their local status quo, but it's still a familiar territory one grew up navigating.

by codexb 3y ago

zoomy 3y ago

You don't need to disavow racism. It's perfectly fine for a people to want and have a homeland .

codexb 3y ago
Yes, but that would more appropriately be called cultural identity or nationalism, it isn't race-based. The English and the French and many other European countries each have very strong cultural identities. The French would equally oppose abandoning their own culture for English, or Japanese, or African cultures.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > but that would more appropriately be called cultural identity or nationalism, it isn't race-based Correct. Unfortunately, the modern Internet meaning of the world "racism" encompasses everything, from actual racism, through ethnic, cultural, national differences, all the way to differences of opinion. In their original comment, 'api seems to have been using this extended meaning. (My attempt at understanding this phenomenon: US is a boiling pot of nationalities, cultures and races from around the world; those distinctions end up blending together. In contrast, the rest of the world, and Europe in particular, had and has geographically-separated nations and cultures, and much less local population variety.) For example, the reason documentaries in the 80s or 90s would, "When they wanted to convey the problem they always showed the same sorts of shots: seething hordes of mostly black and brown people in places like India and Africa. Meanwhile the scientists and other experts interviewed to argue the Malthusian case were almost entirely white men." - that's, IMO, not because of some innate racist views. Rather, it was showing what was familiar and accurate - the academic world in the US was predominantly male and white, while India and Africa were where international aid went. Nothing to do with race, everything to do with what the audience recognizes as the major high population societies suffering from starvation-level poverty.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> You can find undesirable beliefs and traditions among all races and cultures. You cannot fix problematic cultures and societies by trying to emigrate people out of those societies faster than they can produce them. It's far easier to import and export ideas and cultures than it is to migrate people. Not only that. As you said, "cultures and societies are not interchangeable". Even beliefs and traditions that are, on their face, perfectly fine, can be a source of fear for the culture that ends up importing them. The culture you live in is yours, you feel safe and at home in it[0]. It's understandable to fear that, should the culture change too quickly, you may suddenly start feeling like an outsider, an alien, in your own home. You can adapt to changes only so fast. -- [0] - Mostly. Everyone has some smaller or bigger issues with their local status quo, but it's still a familiar territory one grew up navigating.