4 ms·

I don’t know why you would want to work for a company that treats you like this. I guess some people will put up with a lot for money.

saagarjha 3y ago
Is it a lot? You’re looking at hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for a one-month interaction, of which the time you actually spend is a few days at most. Why wouldn’t you put up with it? Especially if your other options are not generally much better.
- jackblemming 3y ago
  I didn’t get into software to chase money. If I did, that’s a pretty dumb decision as there’s way more profitable careers. And working at Facebook seems pretty hellish.
  - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
    I also didnt get into software to chase money, but I'm curious what those careers are, and what the cost of entry is for those careers? Software seems like a pretty clear winner when it comes to compensation and what you have to do for that compensation. Edit: Medicine and law are the only close competitors I can think of, and I didn't need to bury myself in debt or do 10 plus years of specialized training to get paid to build software.
    - csmiller 3y ago
      Finance, consulting, some kinds of real estate-adjacent jobs.
      - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
        Finance seems like a fair enough answer, although it always sounded a bit like a meat grinder, and how many of these jobs are there? Consulting seems like something you need ivy league status and/or the right connections to get into, and probably requires lots of travel, and again, how many of these jobs are there? If you're half decent at some corporate friendly language, you can have a pretty above average salary without needing to work all that hard. Current market notwithstanding, there are loads of people employed doing this, some of them entirely from the comfort of their own homes.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    As opposed to, say, HFT? I don't think there are many jobs that are consistently more profitable than that.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I'm not reading the complaints about the time per say as much as you'd just be doing it for Meta. People in the know of what Meta does behind the scenes are becoming (have been) very disturbed by the practices used and just the corporate ethos in general so that there is a stigma attached to anything Meta. So even having a conversation with them instead of anyone else just puts that stink on you immediately
- Tade0 3y ago
  It's not going to be a few days at most, as the recruitment process directly affects what type of people work there. Consider the possibility of permanent damage to your health - mental and/or physical.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    There are generally much stronger influences on who decides to work for a company than how their impression of the hiring process was. That is, unless the process is really broken (e.g. the founder shows up to the interview and talks about how he likes to hire hot women).
- csa 3y ago
  > Why wouldn’t you put up with it? Not op, but I’m guessing the answer is because Meta is showing that they are more than willing to be the abuser in an abusive relationship if/when the labor market gives them the leeway to do so. Maybe this is some sort of hiring strategy to select extremely compliant employees, but if so, I imagine it will backfire over the long term since overly compliant employees typically just do what they are told and don’t really lead or innovate. I’m guessing a lot of this behavior is driven by internal KPIs (esp. at recruiting and hr), some/many of which may not have the incentives aligned optimally with overall org goals. That said, I would never put up with this sort of treatment, especially from a company with a scarlet letter reputation like Meta. My “negotiation” rebuttal (after their offer) would be something like “here are the teams I am willing to work with, and here are my minimum total comp requirements”, and most importantly, I would have a compelling BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). I’m pretty sure I would never get hired at a place like Meta except via a high-priced acquisition, and I’m totally ok with that. I am very content running my own company.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    > My “negotiation” rebuttal (after their offer) would be something like “here are the teams I am willing to work with, and here are my minimum total comp requirements”, and most importantly, I would have a compelling BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). This is generally how most people approach the negotiation, no?
    - csa 3y ago
      > This is generally how most people approach the negotiation, no? Definitely not, or if they do, they cave to whatever the counter is. Edit: I see many people state their preferences in negotiations, but they rarely take non-negotiable stances with large corps when negotiating working conditions. To be fair, I’ve seen the other extreme, where people have non-negotiables that are not feasible or realistic (e.g., reserved parking in a building with no parking, 2x-3x market rate for entry level positions, etc.). That said, I think these are rare, and these excessive asks reveal the wackadoodles fairly efficiently. I’m guessing a decent percentage of those hired take the team they are assigned to at roughly the total comp that they were initially offered (e.g., maybe a few thousand more rather than 100k more… or maybe just the initial offer). People default to being bad at negotiation, and many aren’t willing to walk when an offer is insulting. There’s some room for discussion about accepting offers and then bolting when the labor market shifts towards labor, but I’m not sure that’s optimal.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  You're not being paid for what you do. The high salary is for who you're doing it for. It's conscience money. There's nothing special or challenging about the programming or system design problem you'd find at a company like Facebook. The unwritten rule is, we'll pay you generously so long as you surrender your dignity and ethics at the door. You'll be working on exciting, cutting edge products to; - divide society - stoke envy and vanity - spread disinformation - drive young women to madness and suicide - manipulate politics - sell people stuff they don't need and can't afford - yadda yadda yadda... > Is it a lot? That really depends on what sort of person you are.
  - neverrroot 3y ago
    I'm trying to learn more about what disinformation is, could you please post your thoughts under the following Ask HN post? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39554369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39554369
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Ok

saagarjha 3y ago

Is it a lot? You’re looking at hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for a one-month interaction, of which the time you actually spend is a few days at most. Why wouldn’t you put up with it? Especially if your other options are not generally much better.

jackblemming 3y ago
I didn’t get into software to chase money. If I did, that’s a pretty dumb decision as there’s way more profitable careers. And working at Facebook seems pretty hellish.
- ifyoubuildit 3y ago
  I also didnt get into software to chase money, but I'm curious what those careers are, and what the cost of entry is for those careers? Software seems like a pretty clear winner when it comes to compensation and what you have to do for that compensation. Edit: Medicine and law are the only close competitors I can think of, and I didn't need to bury myself in debt or do 10 plus years of specialized training to get paid to build software.
  - csmiller 3y ago
    Finance, consulting, some kinds of real estate-adjacent jobs.
    - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
      Finance seems like a fair enough answer, although it always sounded a bit like a meat grinder, and how many of these jobs are there? Consulting seems like something you need ivy league status and/or the right connections to get into, and probably requires lots of travel, and again, how many of these jobs are there? If you're half decent at some corporate friendly language, you can have a pretty above average salary without needing to work all that hard. Current market notwithstanding, there are loads of people employed doing this, some of them entirely from the comfort of their own homes.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  As opposed to, say, HFT? I don't think there are many jobs that are consistently more profitable than that.
dylan604 3y ago
I'm not reading the complaints about the time per say as much as you'd just be doing it for Meta. People in the know of what Meta does behind the scenes are becoming (have been) very disturbed by the practices used and just the corporate ethos in general so that there is a stigma attached to anything Meta. So even having a conversation with them instead of anyone else just puts that stink on you immediately
Tade0 3y ago
It's not going to be a few days at most, as the recruitment process directly affects what type of people work there. Consider the possibility of permanent damage to your health - mental and/or physical.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  There are generally much stronger influences on who decides to work for a company than how their impression of the hiring process was. That is, unless the process is really broken (e.g. the founder shows up to the interview and talks about how he likes to hire hot women).
csa 3y ago
> Why wouldn’t you put up with it? Not op, but I’m guessing the answer is because Meta is showing that they are more than willing to be the abuser in an abusive relationship if/when the labor market gives them the leeway to do so. Maybe this is some sort of hiring strategy to select extremely compliant employees, but if so, I imagine it will backfire over the long term since overly compliant employees typically just do what they are told and don’t really lead or innovate. I’m guessing a lot of this behavior is driven by internal KPIs (esp. at recruiting and hr), some/many of which may not have the incentives aligned optimally with overall org goals. That said, I would never put up with this sort of treatment, especially from a company with a scarlet letter reputation like Meta. My “negotiation” rebuttal (after their offer) would be something like “here are the teams I am willing to work with, and here are my minimum total comp requirements”, and most importantly, I would have a compelling BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). I’m pretty sure I would never get hired at a place like Meta except via a high-priced acquisition, and I’m totally ok with that. I am very content running my own company.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  > My “negotiation” rebuttal (after their offer) would be something like “here are the teams I am willing to work with, and here are my minimum total comp requirements”, and most importantly, I would have a compelling BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). This is generally how most people approach the negotiation, no?
  - csa 3y ago
    > This is generally how most people approach the negotiation, no? Definitely not, or if they do, they cave to whatever the counter is. Edit: I see many people state their preferences in negotiations, but they rarely take non-negotiable stances with large corps when negotiating working conditions. To be fair, I’ve seen the other extreme, where people have non-negotiables that are not feasible or realistic (e.g., reserved parking in a building with no parking, 2x-3x market rate for entry level positions, etc.). That said, I think these are rare, and these excessive asks reveal the wackadoodles fairly efficiently. I’m guessing a decent percentage of those hired take the team they are assigned to at roughly the total comp that they were initially offered (e.g., maybe a few thousand more rather than 100k more… or maybe just the initial offer). People default to being bad at negotiation, and many aren’t willing to walk when an offer is insulting. There’s some room for discussion about accepting offers and then bolting when the labor market shifts towards labor, but I’m not sure that’s optimal.
nonrandomstring 3y ago
You're not being paid for what you do. The high salary is for who you're doing it for. It's conscience money. There's nothing special or challenging about the programming or system design problem you'd find at a company like Facebook. The unwritten rule is, we'll pay you generously so long as you surrender your dignity and ethics at the door. You'll be working on exciting, cutting edge products to; - divide society - stoke envy and vanity - spread disinformation - drive young women to madness and suicide - manipulate politics - sell people stuff they don't need and can't afford - yadda yadda yadda... > Is it a lot? That really depends on what sort of person you are.
- neverrroot 3y ago
  I'm trying to learn more about what disinformation is, could you please post your thoughts under the following Ask HN post? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39554369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39554369
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Ok