3 ms·

The plane is just up in the air moving relative to the air around it, it doesn't care how the air it's in is moving relative to the ground. A tail wind is just

The plane is just up in the air moving relative to the air around it, it doesn't care how the air it's in is moving relative to the ground. A tail wind is just saying that the air is moving in a certain direction with respect to the ground (the same direction the plane is flying). The plane doesn't give a shit about that.

1970-01-01 3y ago
Yes that makes sense at a high level, but there must be a point of transition between calm air and a jet stream that makes the wings useless to the airplane for at least a few seconds.
- bityard 3y ago
  Indeed it does, that's effectively what turbulence is.
- CrazyStat 3y ago
  If you took a plane flying in still air and magically, instantaneously replaced all the air around it with a tail wind equal to its velocity then yes the plane would stall and fall out of the sky. Fortunately that kind of instantaneous change doesn't happen in real life.
  - DrSAR 3y ago
    GO AROUND, WINDSHEAR AHEAD!
- fh973 3y ago
  It's relevant in practice when landing against head wind. You need to have extra speed to not stall when you enter the slower air near ground.
  - rockostrich 3y ago
    Do you mean landing with a tailwind? A headwind should allow the plane to create the same amount of lift it needs to avoid stalling at lower ground speeds.
    - Toutouxc 3y ago
      Yes, that’s correct, but the headwind stops being so headwind-y near the ground, so your plane needs to go a bit faster to compensate for the loss of headwind-ness in the seconds before touchdown.
      - The5thElephant 3y ago
        On the flip side you also get ground-effect when you are low to the ground where the high-pressure underneath the wing gets trapped against the ground creating a cushion of pressure increasing lift.
        bouchard 3y ago
        Which can be a bit of a challenge when trying to land, especially for aerodynamically efficient aircraft.
- lanternfish 3y ago
  Presumably the plane would accelerate as it climbed through the velocity gradient, never falling to a point of negative air-relative airspeed.
- rockostrich 3y ago
  Yes, the wings are useless once the air is moving close to the speed of the plane. Thankfully, we have jet engines that help planes move a lot faster than the 100-200 knots that jet streams can reach. They'll still affect the flight but only temporarily.
- lovecg 3y ago
  These sudden changes do indeed happen in stormy weather, as adjacent layers of air can move with different velocities relative to the ground (the technical term is “wind shear”). If an airplane climbs or descends through those it will look like your speed (relative to air) is suddenly increased or decreased by some amount and you would have to compensate. It’s also a bigger problem for large, heavy airplanes as you have more work to do to accelerate for a given amount of speed loss. Jet stream boundary is usually not this sharp, and the airplane would fly much faster than the difference anyway.
mechhacker 3y ago
It also changes a lot for sailboats, and even more for faster sailing craft (windsurfers, etc.). You can feel a much stronger pressure in the sail when moving towards the wind on a fast windsurfer/windfoil as you can do 15-20kts 45deg towards the wind, giving you an apparent wind that is 10-14kts stronger than the true wind. On the same craft, going away/downwind, you will feel the apparent wind at a similar angle 10-14kts less. In fact, because of the change in drag and forces, you'll probably be going faster and feel even less wind on the downwind leg. When you turn, this can be a big benefit for going downwind (jibing) as at some point the sail feels zero apparent wind (your motion cancelling out the true wind), feels very light in your hand, and easy to rotate to face the other way. Even knowing the physics of it, the timing and execution is still something that takes a lot of practice...especially on big race gear with a 9.0m2 sail.

1970-01-01 3y ago

Yes that makes sense at a high level, but there must be a point of transition between calm air and a jet stream that makes the wings useless to the airplane for at least a few seconds.

bityard 3y ago
Indeed it does, that's effectively what turbulence is.
CrazyStat 3y ago
If you took a plane flying in still air and magically, instantaneously replaced all the air around it with a tail wind equal to its velocity then yes the plane would stall and fall out of the sky. Fortunately that kind of instantaneous change doesn't happen in real life.
- DrSAR 3y ago
  GO AROUND, WINDSHEAR AHEAD!
fh973 3y ago
It's relevant in practice when landing against head wind. You need to have extra speed to not stall when you enter the slower air near ground.
- rockostrich 3y ago
  Do you mean landing with a tailwind? A headwind should allow the plane to create the same amount of lift it needs to avoid stalling at lower ground speeds.
  - Toutouxc 3y ago
    Yes, that’s correct, but the headwind stops being so headwind-y near the ground, so your plane needs to go a bit faster to compensate for the loss of headwind-ness in the seconds before touchdown.
    - The5thElephant 3y ago
      On the flip side you also get ground-effect when you are low to the ground where the high-pressure underneath the wing gets trapped against the ground creating a cushion of pressure increasing lift.
      - bouchard 3y ago
        Which can be a bit of a challenge when trying to land, especially for aerodynamically efficient aircraft.
lanternfish 3y ago
Presumably the plane would accelerate as it climbed through the velocity gradient, never falling to a point of negative air-relative airspeed.
rockostrich 3y ago
Yes, the wings are useless once the air is moving close to the speed of the plane. Thankfully, we have jet engines that help planes move a lot faster than the 100-200 knots that jet streams can reach. They'll still affect the flight but only temporarily.
lovecg 3y ago
These sudden changes do indeed happen in stormy weather, as adjacent layers of air can move with different velocities relative to the ground (the technical term is “wind shear”). If an airplane climbs or descends through those it will look like your speed (relative to air) is suddenly increased or decreased by some amount and you would have to compensate. It’s also a bigger problem for large, heavy airplanes as you have more work to do to accelerate for a given amount of speed loss. Jet stream boundary is usually not this sharp, and the airplane would fly much faster than the difference anyway.

mechhacker 3y ago

It also changes a lot for sailboats, and even more for faster sailing craft (windsurfers, etc.). You can feel a much stronger pressure in the sail when moving towards the wind on a fast windsurfer/windfoil as you can do 15-20kts 45deg towards the wind, giving you an apparent wind that is 10-14kts stronger than the true wind. On the same craft, going away/downwind, you will feel the apparent wind at a similar angle 10-14kts less. In fact, because of the change in drag and forces, you'll probably be going faster and feel even less wind on the downwind leg. When you turn, this can be a big benefit for going downwind (jibing) as at some point the sail feels zero apparent wind (your motion cancelling out the true wind), feels very light in your hand, and easy to rotate to face the other way. Even knowing the physics of it, the timing and execution is still something that takes a lot of practice...especially on big race gear with a 9.0m2 sail.