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It's weird that people are acting like commodities are under some sort of license when they are purchased. As far as I know they aren't. A world that tries to r

It's weird that people are acting like commodities are under some sort of license when they are purchased. As far as I know they aren't. A world that tries to regulate this scares me more than one where people participate in futile hashing.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to begin considering. It's clear that the markets by themselves are not capable of addressing various concerns about our planet's limited resources. If we want our society to remain viable long term, we need to start being smart with how much of any given commodity is committed to how much of any given effort. A new one, to be sure, and worth scrutinizing as we begin. But the market has demonstrated quite clearly it can't be trusted to manage finite resources.
- sackfield 3y ago
  I think the market has shown that growth is the solution rather than rationing. Lots of the humanitarian improvements of the 20th century (such as number of people starving) are improved due to market forces innovating on doing more with less. The same will no doubt happen to energy. Consumption is the catalyst.
  - makapuf 3y ago
    OK but natural resources are unlikely to grow. Unregulated market forces lead to hell (and of course also is too much regulation)
    - sackfield 3y ago
      They don't need to grow, efficiency can grow though as very aptly demonstrated in the 20th century.
      - makapuf 3y ago
        Thermodynamics sometimes say that you can't. Also, if I can mine $x coins for y energy, I will generate a bit more of $money and remove natural resources. Value of coins may not keep their value in 2000 years, but co2 ppm/ecosystems/metals/whatever won't be there anymore, unless we know how to deal with them, that we may or we may not.
  - murrygawhround 3y ago
    [dead]
  - birdofhermes 3y ago
    Market forces? It was the Haber process and subsequent innovations around nitrogen-fixing. It was scientific progress that saved us from Malthusian collapse. On the other hand, market forces do explain why 40% of the American food supply is wasted [0] while 12% of American households suffer food insecurity [1]. [0] https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/ https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/ [1] https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-u-s/key-statistics-graphics/#foodsecure https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    > Lots of the humanitarian improvements of the 20th century (such as number of people starving) are improved due to market forces This is a good point. The conversion of atmospheric nitrogen to ammonia is a capitalist reaction that would not occur under Regulations. Few people these days acknowledge all of the grain fields planted by Adam Smith in the early 1900s
- polski-g 3y ago
  We have limitless power on Earth from fusion (solar via the Sun) and from fission via Uranium/Thorium.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Which is fine if we mandate crypto may only consume renewables or low carbon energy for this work. We do not, so this is immaterial.
    - polski-g 3y ago
      Energy usage is fungible. Just build more generating stations.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
It's more about observing that perfect commodities don't exist - real life only matches the model under some conditions. What is typically considered a commodity stops behaving as one when demand outraces supply. It's like Newton's laws of motion - they work for most of things we encounter day-to-day, but break down when bodies are heavy enough, small enough, and/or fast enough.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to begin considering. It's clear that the markets by themselves are not capable of addressing various concerns about our planet's limited resources. If we want our society to remain viable long term, we need to start being smart with how much of any given commodity is committed to how much of any given effort. A new one, to be sure, and worth scrutinizing as we begin. But the market has demonstrated quite clearly it can't be trusted to manage finite resources.

sackfield 3y ago
I think the market has shown that growth is the solution rather than rationing. Lots of the humanitarian improvements of the 20th century (such as number of people starving) are improved due to market forces innovating on doing more with less. The same will no doubt happen to energy. Consumption is the catalyst.
- makapuf 3y ago
  OK but natural resources are unlikely to grow. Unregulated market forces lead to hell (and of course also is too much regulation)
  - sackfield 3y ago
    They don't need to grow, efficiency can grow though as very aptly demonstrated in the 20th century.
    - makapuf 3y ago
      Thermodynamics sometimes say that you can't. Also, if I can mine $x coins for y energy, I will generate a bit more of $money and remove natural resources. Value of coins may not keep their value in 2000 years, but co2 ppm/ecosystems/metals/whatever won't be there anymore, unless we know how to deal with them, that we may or we may not.
- murrygawhround 3y ago
  [dead]
- birdofhermes 3y ago
  Market forces? It was the Haber process and subsequent innovations around nitrogen-fixing. It was scientific progress that saved us from Malthusian collapse. On the other hand, market forces do explain why 40% of the American food supply is wasted [0] while 12% of American households suffer food insecurity [1]. [0] https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/ https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/ [1] https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-u-s/key-statistics-graphics/#foodsecure https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jrflowers 3y ago
  > Lots of the humanitarian improvements of the 20th century (such as number of people starving) are improved due to market forces This is a good point. The conversion of atmospheric nitrogen to ammonia is a capitalist reaction that would not occur under Regulations. Few people these days acknowledge all of the grain fields planted by Adam Smith in the early 1900s
polski-g 3y ago
We have limitless power on Earth from fusion (solar via the Sun) and from fission via Uranium/Thorium.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Which is fine if we mandate crypto may only consume renewables or low carbon energy for this work. We do not, so this is immaterial.
  - polski-g 3y ago
    Energy usage is fungible. Just build more generating stations.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

It's more about observing that perfect commodities don't exist - real life only matches the model under some conditions. What is typically considered a commodity stops behaving as one when demand outraces supply. It's like Newton's laws of motion - they work for most of things we encounter day-to-day, but break down when bodies are heavy enough, small enough, and/or fast enough.