4 ms·

Maybe too tangential, but here is my question anyways: Is there a project that tries to build (using Raspberry Pis for example, or an app on a smartphone) a se

Maybe too tangential, but here is my question anyways: Is there a project that tries to build (using Raspberry Pis for example, or an app on a smartphone) a second global network of privately run nodes. The most similar project I can think of was the Fon project [1] where you would purchase a Fon box and share internet access with all other Fon users. Sort of an organised wifi hotspot club. But, what I'm thinking about is more something that would just need electricity (vs electricity + ISP) and be running more like a big LAN. Everything would be P2P on it, from DNS to hosting. I think some federated systems could work almost just the same on it but possibilities (and speed) would be very limited. With all the conflicts and natural disasters happening world wide I've been thinking more and more about ways to still be connected to others through something that would be more P2P even hardware wise. I know internet (arpanet) started by trying to be just what I describe, but we all know now that it's not how it works anymore with some big centralisation points along the stack. Is what I'm describing the "infamous" Web3? The few hazy definitions I read don't make it sound like it. Anyways, if anybody knows any project that ressembles my poor explanation, I'm all ears as I'd like to get on board an promote it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fon_Wireless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fon_Wireless

zmgsabst 3y ago
I think you’re looking for community mesh networks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking People have tried, but they’re hard — and TLAs tend to show up. (At least from stories I heard; before my time.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless But they’re doing a crypto one too — maybe that’ll work better. https://www.helium.com/ https://www.helium.com/ There’s also a HAM radio option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet
- bigfishrunning 3y ago
  Ham radio is kind of the only (legal) option for any kind of range. Everyone should get a license and practice up.
- westmeal 3y ago
  What is a TLA? Never heard of that before.
  - dboreham 3y ago
    Three Letter Acronym
  - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
    Three Letter Acronym. The US has a bunch of agencies whose names are TLAs. The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, FCC, etc.
- maaaaattttt 3y ago
  Thank you, a wireless mesh network seems to be the broad name of what I had in mind. You seem to hint at the fact that they are illegal? Or do you mean they are heavily regulated? If it's the case it'd strange as any online private community could be considered a wireless mesh network. Maybe that's the case but there are too many...
  - pjc50 3y ago
    In the US, HAM licensing (a) had heavy bandwidth restrictions and (b) banned encryption. Leaving the choice instead of trying to range-extend WiFi without breaking the power restrictions, such as by using directional antennae. Generally the problem with mesh networks is spectrum licensing. (a badly functioning mesh network is indistinguishable from a distributed jammer in its band!) As for the TLAs .. I don't know about that, but the history of radio licensing and telecoms is entangled with national security, because allowing enemy agents free comms into your country was considered Very Bad.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    It’s not illegal and you can use open spectrum, etc. But the government monitors communications. The FBI and CIA infiltrated gaming groups as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36100994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36100994
pjc50 3y ago
Nodes are useless without links. And links over distance are harder than people think.
mbreese 3y ago
If you’re okay with just text communications, the meshtastic project is also an option. Because it uses LoRa for communications, nodes can be further apart. As a bonus, it allows for encrypted [1] communications as it doesn’t use licensed spectrum. But, LoRa is a low bandwidth technology (or at least meshstatic is), so text is about all you’d get. But it works with pretty cheap components. [1] I’m not sure if the algorithm has been vetted or not.
- maaaaattttt 3y ago
  This is what I had in mind, I guess using simply wifi, the critical mass needed to have a correct network would be too big. And very locally limited.
uyzstvqs 3y ago
If the internet were to go down, experts (perhaps like yourself) would definitely work on building local IP networks for their local communities. The cool thing is that with P2P tech like BitTorrent, you can have edge nodes connected to multiple such networks at once. Edge nodes can then download a torrent from one network, then seed it on all connected networks. Wireless mesh networking also exists but is complex, unreliable, slow and high-latency. Not to mention there isn't an established standard like there is IP/TCP/UDP.

zmgsabst 3y ago

I think you’re looking for community mesh networks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking People have tried, but they’re hard — and TLAs tend to show up. (At least from stories I heard; before my time.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless But they’re doing a crypto one too — maybe that’ll work better. https://www.helium.com/ https://www.helium.com/ There’s also a HAM radio option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet

bigfishrunning 3y ago
Ham radio is kind of the only (legal) option for any kind of range. Everyone should get a license and practice up.
westmeal 3y ago
What is a TLA? Never heard of that before.
- dboreham 3y ago
  Three Letter Acronym
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
  Three Letter Acronym. The US has a bunch of agencies whose names are TLAs. The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, FCC, etc.
maaaaattttt 3y ago
Thank you, a wireless mesh network seems to be the broad name of what I had in mind. You seem to hint at the fact that they are illegal? Or do you mean they are heavily regulated? If it's the case it'd strange as any online private community could be considered a wireless mesh network. Maybe that's the case but there are too many...
- pjc50 3y ago
  In the US, HAM licensing (a) had heavy bandwidth restrictions and (b) banned encryption. Leaving the choice instead of trying to range-extend WiFi without breaking the power restrictions, such as by using directional antennae. Generally the problem with mesh networks is spectrum licensing. (a badly functioning mesh network is indistinguishable from a distributed jammer in its band!) As for the TLAs .. I don't know about that, but the history of radio licensing and telecoms is entangled with national security, because allowing enemy agents free comms into your country was considered Very Bad.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  It’s not illegal and you can use open spectrum, etc. But the government monitors communications. The FBI and CIA infiltrated gaming groups as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36100994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36100994

pjc50 3y ago

Nodes are useless without links. And links over distance are harder than people think.

mbreese 3y ago

If you’re okay with just text communications, the meshtastic project is also an option. Because it uses LoRa for communications, nodes can be further apart. As a bonus, it allows for encrypted [1] communications as it doesn’t use licensed spectrum. But, LoRa is a low bandwidth technology (or at least meshstatic is), so text is about all you’d get. But it works with pretty cheap components. [1] I’m not sure if the algorithm has been vetted or not.

maaaaattttt 3y ago
This is what I had in mind, I guess using simply wifi, the critical mass needed to have a correct network would be too big. And very locally limited.

uyzstvqs 3y ago

If the internet were to go down, experts (perhaps like yourself) would definitely work on building local IP networks for their local communities. The cool thing is that with P2P tech like BitTorrent, you can have edge nodes connected to multiple such networks at once. Edge nodes can then download a torrent from one network, then seed it on all connected networks. Wireless mesh networking also exists but is complex, unreliable, slow and high-latency. Not to mention there isn't an established standard like there is IP/TCP/UDP.