4 ms·

I always find it amusing when non Windows users are shocked that the overwhelming majority of developers on Windows are perfectly productive.

by skc 3y ago

bassman9000 3y ago
it's not about being unable to be productive in windows is about people forced to work on win vs their preferred linux/osx finding out productivity is, indeed, worse, but not as bad as expected
baq 3y ago
I find it confusing that macOS is assumed the best dev OS without any doubts or second thoughts. Yes macs are great hardware, absolutely nothing else like it available for any price, but the OS is subpar (and I don't even mean the window management). Source: was running Windows forever and macOS for the past 18 months.
- glimshe 3y ago
  My work mandates MacOS, so most of my computing time is spent there. I think I'd accept a small paycut to use Windows, I find it a lot more productive and pleasant to use despite inferior laptops.
- tauchunfall 3y ago
  Windows 11 taskbar reminds me of macOS dockbar. I've been using Windows for two decades and before that I loved the Amiga Workbench. When I had the choice between a Dell Windows notebook and a macBook I went to the Apple store and some enthusiastic person showed me the new 2017 models with larger touchpad and gestures to move between workspaces. I thought "these apple people. who needs that". Then we ordered the macBook and because of my keyboard layout choice it took a week to arrive. I got a used Dell notebook for week, worked and then switched to the macBook. When I had to give the Dell back I wanted to transfer some files to the macBook, and I used the touchpad and made some macOS gestures and wondered why the touchpad is so small and why the gestures don't work. This was the moment I understood why the person told me about these things. I'm using macOS for 7 years now. Also had to deal with some bugs and stupid UX here and there. But overall my OS of choice for sure. Oh and the touchbar on the top of the keyboard was not even a good idea, I think. My last Windows was Windows 7 and I liked it a lot. Windows 10 I never liked, even when I only used it in a VM.
  - baq 3y ago
    This is what I meant by hardware; I consider touchpad gestures to be hardware even if their responses have to be handled in software. I use my (my employer's) macbook 99% of the time docked, so I don't really care, but yes objectively gestures are top notch. It's all the other parts of the OS to which you aren't immediately exposed which get me. Most displays need an external tool to force a sane resolution. The command line tools are almost-but-not-quite compatible with what you use on servers. Docker is horseshit. Need another external program to see how many times I have to cycle through app windows. Need an external tool to invert mouse wheel scroll direction but not the touchpad scroll direction. Need an external tool for a sane clipboard. Need an external tool to tile windows. The hardware is very much 'pro' but the OS is at most 'deluxe'.
    - whodev 3y ago
      > Need an external tool to invert mouse wheel scroll direction but not the touchpad scroll direction. This is probably my biggest gripe with macOS right now. Are there no developers at Apple who find this to be an issue?
- realusername 3y ago
  I also think the same, while Apple is very good on the hardware side, the software side doesn't feel very polished to me and I regularly encounter bugs on basic features (especially anything network related) While they get praised a lot for the UX, I personally find it questionable and more optimised to look good on a screenshot than actually usable.
  - bitvoid 3y ago
    > especially anything network related That's surprising. The last few Windows machines I've owned I've had to fiddle with networking stuff. In particular, they would all begin to intermittently lose internet access after about 6 months, requiring me to go through a series of steps to flush the DNS cache, renew IP, and reset winsock. On the other hand, I've never had a networking issue on a Mac for the 15 years I've owned them. It's weird how much people's experience can vary on these types of things. I've heard networking being a headache on Macs from others too. I've just never experienced any issues before.
- zaphar 3y ago
  Whether people think a particular OS is subpar or not is pretty subjective and based around a set of preferences for how one wants to interact with their computer. I've used 5 different OS families in my time and each one had stuff I liked and stuff I didn't. I no longer speak about which OS is better. Only which one I prefer to use based on my interaction preferences. * I prefer the command line and keyboard interactions to a mouse. * I'm a focus on one thing at a time kind of guy so minimizing distraction is important to me. * I want hermetic repeatable configuration for my system. Because of this I have a preference for unix systems, because they have better Cli tooling and methods for minimizing distraction. I like mac's because the hardware is better and the OS is basically unix with some polishing bits. The window switching behavior also means I can stay focused a little easier. Is it perfect? No but it meets my most important criteria better than anything else out there. Other people have very different criteria than me though so the calculation will be different. Neither OS is subpar just focuses on a different market.
- piva00 3y ago
  [dead]

I always find it amusing when non Windows users are shocked that the overwhelming majority of developers on Windows are perfectly productive.

by skc 3y ago

I always find it amusing when non Windows users are shocked that the overwhelming majority of developers on Windows are perfectly productive.

bassman9000 3y ago

it's not about being unable to be productive in windows is about people forced to work on win vs their preferred linux/osx finding out productivity is, indeed, worse, but not as bad as expected

baq 3y ago

I find it confusing that macOS is assumed the best dev OS without any doubts or second thoughts. Yes macs are great hardware, absolutely nothing else like it available for any price, but the OS is subpar (and I don't even mean the window management). Source: was running Windows forever and macOS for the past 18 months.

glimshe 3y ago
My work mandates MacOS, so most of my computing time is spent there. I think I'd accept a small paycut to use Windows, I find it a lot more productive and pleasant to use despite inferior laptops.
tauchunfall 3y ago
Windows 11 taskbar reminds me of macOS dockbar. I've been using Windows for two decades and before that I loved the Amiga Workbench. When I had the choice between a Dell Windows notebook and a macBook I went to the Apple store and some enthusiastic person showed me the new 2017 models with larger touchpad and gestures to move between workspaces. I thought "these apple people. who needs that". Then we ordered the macBook and because of my keyboard layout choice it took a week to arrive. I got a used Dell notebook for week, worked and then switched to the macBook. When I had to give the Dell back I wanted to transfer some files to the macBook, and I used the touchpad and made some macOS gestures and wondered why the touchpad is so small and why the gestures don't work. This was the moment I understood why the person told me about these things. I'm using macOS for 7 years now. Also had to deal with some bugs and stupid UX here and there. But overall my OS of choice for sure. Oh and the touchbar on the top of the keyboard was not even a good idea, I think. My last Windows was Windows 7 and I liked it a lot. Windows 10 I never liked, even when I only used it in a VM.
- baq 3y ago
  This is what I meant by hardware; I consider touchpad gestures to be hardware even if their responses have to be handled in software. I use my (my employer's) macbook 99% of the time docked, so I don't really care, but yes objectively gestures are top notch. It's all the other parts of the OS to which you aren't immediately exposed which get me. Most displays need an external tool to force a sane resolution. The command line tools are almost-but-not-quite compatible with what you use on servers. Docker is horseshit. Need another external program to see how many times I have to cycle through app windows. Need an external tool to invert mouse wheel scroll direction but not the touchpad scroll direction. Need an external tool for a sane clipboard. Need an external tool to tile windows. The hardware is very much 'pro' but the OS is at most 'deluxe'.
  - whodev 3y ago
    > Need an external tool to invert mouse wheel scroll direction but not the touchpad scroll direction. This is probably my biggest gripe with macOS right now. Are there no developers at Apple who find this to be an issue?
realusername 3y ago
I also think the same, while Apple is very good on the hardware side, the software side doesn't feel very polished to me and I regularly encounter bugs on basic features (especially anything network related) While they get praised a lot for the UX, I personally find it questionable and more optimised to look good on a screenshot than actually usable.
- bitvoid 3y ago
  > especially anything network related That's surprising. The last few Windows machines I've owned I've had to fiddle with networking stuff. In particular, they would all begin to intermittently lose internet access after about 6 months, requiring me to go through a series of steps to flush the DNS cache, renew IP, and reset winsock. On the other hand, I've never had a networking issue on a Mac for the 15 years I've owned them. It's weird how much people's experience can vary on these types of things. I've heard networking being a headache on Macs from others too. I've just never experienced any issues before.
zaphar 3y ago
Whether people think a particular OS is subpar or not is pretty subjective and based around a set of preferences for how one wants to interact with their computer. I've used 5 different OS families in my time and each one had stuff I liked and stuff I didn't. I no longer speak about which OS is better. Only which one I prefer to use based on my interaction preferences. * I prefer the command line and keyboard interactions to a mouse. * I'm a focus on one thing at a time kind of guy so minimizing distraction is important to me. * I want hermetic repeatable configuration for my system. Because of this I have a preference for unix systems, because they have better Cli tooling and methods for minimizing distraction. I like mac's because the hardware is better and the OS is basically unix with some polishing bits. The window switching behavior also means I can stay focused a little easier. Is it perfect? No but it meets my most important criteria better than anything else out there. Other people have very different criteria than me though so the calculation will be different. Neither OS is subpar just focuses on a different market.
piva00 3y ago
[dead]