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> But it's also going to be a problem for Google because it has already said it is trying to influence the way its AI produces results. Goodness. Instead of bu

> But it's also going to be a problem for Google because it has already said it is trying to influence the way its AI produces results. Goodness. Instead of building a digital twin to be of service and partnership with society, it seems abundantly clear that Google seems more aimed at reshaping society to their specifications and with no input or oversight from the public that receives them. This would be a “wrong use” of this technology. We do not want to create subservient “receiving classes” of people and controlling information people who run the thinking machines and decide how society should be. I think Google is getting kickback because their AI is presciently invoking the plot of Gattaca. Google feels like they are getting caught running an agenda with the technology, not having a technical problem. Now obviously everyone on here is going to be commenting about how hard it is to get these systems right, but this version was shipped after it was reviewed internally. How can these kinds of issues go unnoticed by an entire testing staff of some of the smartest people on the planet prior to their most important product release? Does that make sense? Is there something I’m missing with that?

neverrroot 3y ago
This, exactly this.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
If you work at google as an engineer or tester and you notice that the newest AI does output ridiculous levels of "corpo diversity", would you report it to higher ups? I believe anything involving diversity in the workplace or in this case advertising is extremely toxic and people might think twice. It is a culture of no tolerance (against intolerance supposedly) towards diverging thoughts that it is in stark contrast with the message they are trying to send in their products.
- true_religion 3y ago
  Would anyone’s job be at risk if the framing of the error were “it seems our AI is whitewashing history by only generating black and Asian Nazis” or “our AI is incapable of generating European Jewish people, it always generates another race instead”?
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    Of course you could frame it in a way that doesn't offend those that created the problem, but question would be if that is worth it to you tiptoeing around these issues. I wouldn't expect people to solve the underlying issue here anyway.
xiphias2 3y ago
James Damore spoke up and Google made an example of him. The company already changed a lot before, but it was a strong signal that speaking up will be punished no matter how good engineer you are .
- neverrroot 3y ago
  This contributed in a big way to the culture at Google, culture that can now be seen flowing in their products.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  Let’s be honest here: how many workplaces would allow a random engineer to broadcast a gender critical rant on their internal network? People get fired for less than that. Damore was, and rightly so.
  - sickofparadox 3y ago
    You should look at what he actually said - it was not some anti-woman screed like you may think. The overall goal of the paper AFAIR was to examine why (then) current diversity programs were not achieving the desired results and how to address that from beyond the lens of inherent bias. Its very short, you could read it over a single cup of coffee! https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideol...
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      It does not matter what the contents are. I could post the most scientific accurate post about IQ differences correlated to ethnicities, and get fired for it, because it's just not work appropriate.
      - xiphias2 3y ago
        For many years before that we (Googlers) were incentivized to mix work and life: Do you really think playing pool,foosball, guitar hero, eating dinner at 18:30 when work hours end at 17:00, bringing kids to workplace on weekends to play, sleeping at the workplace, bringing laptops with you / being oncall when not working are work appropriate? The problem was specifically not agreeing with democrat US politics, which is relevant to what's happening, nothing else.

neverrroot 3y ago

This, exactly this.

raxxorraxor 3y ago

If you work at google as an engineer or tester and you notice that the newest AI does output ridiculous levels of "corpo diversity", would you report it to higher ups? I believe anything involving diversity in the workplace or in this case advertising is extremely toxic and people might think twice. It is a culture of no tolerance (against intolerance supposedly) towards diverging thoughts that it is in stark contrast with the message they are trying to send in their products.

true_religion 3y ago
Would anyone’s job be at risk if the framing of the error were “it seems our AI is whitewashing history by only generating black and Asian Nazis” or “our AI is incapable of generating European Jewish people, it always generates another race instead”?
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  Of course you could frame it in a way that doesn't offend those that created the problem, but question would be if that is worth it to you tiptoeing around these issues. I wouldn't expect people to solve the underlying issue here anyway.

xiphias2 3y ago

James Damore spoke up and Google made an example of him. The company already changed a lot before, but it was a strong signal that speaking up will be punished no matter how good engineer you are .

neverrroot 3y ago
This contributed in a big way to the culture at Google, culture that can now be seen flowing in their products.
manuelabeledo 3y ago
Let’s be honest here: how many workplaces would allow a random engineer to broadcast a gender critical rant on their internal network? People get fired for less than that. Damore was, and rightly so.
- sickofparadox 3y ago
  You should look at what he actually said - it was not some anti-woman screed like you may think. The overall goal of the paper AFAIR was to examine why (then) current diversity programs were not achieving the desired results and how to address that from beyond the lens of inherent bias. Its very short, you could read it over a single cup of coffee! https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideol...
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    It does not matter what the contents are. I could post the most scientific accurate post about IQ differences correlated to ethnicities, and get fired for it, because it's just not work appropriate.
    - xiphias2 3y ago
      For many years before that we (Googlers) were incentivized to mix work and life: Do you really think playing pool,foosball, guitar hero, eating dinner at 18:30 when work hours end at 17:00, bringing kids to workplace on weekends to play, sleeping at the workplace, bringing laptops with you / being oncall when not working are work appropriate? The problem was specifically not agreeing with democrat US politics, which is relevant to what's happening, nothing else.