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> ML/AI existed before this "bubble" and will continue to exist after. All the more reason to assume the new run up is indeed a bubble. > actual utility What

> ML/AI existed before this "bubble" and will continue to exist after. All the more reason to assume the new run up is indeed a bubble. > actual utility What utility?

noobermin 3y ago
Machine learning is a broad field that arguably includes generative AI. ML has a much longer track record and has shown sustainable growth although it did also ride hype too.
- Timber-6539 3y ago
  The current hype is all about generative AI. That's what am calling a bubble and it has very little utility in the real world if any.
  - anon22981 3y ago
    I hate the hype as much as the next guy but even I can see it’s clear as day ”gen ai” is here to stay on some form or another. Denying it is plain ignorance. Also denying it’s real world use is very ignorant as well. I have used generative ai very little yet I’ve gotten very real world use out of it. Image generation for a lecture to conceptualize something as pictures. Help in programming something fast in something unfamiliar. (Needed to use an azure sdk in java which I hadnt used before - instead of reading documentation chatgpt gave me a very usable example and I did the integration part of the work in minutes. I did check some things from docs afterwards, but the example sped the progress by a lot.) Gen ai saves too much time / money / effort on several tasks not to keep on existing. I don’t deny a possible bubble, but a bubble and real world use are not mutually exclusive in the least.
    - Timber-6539 3y ago
      Gen AI is a toy, a useful one I have to admit but it is not solving any real world problems. I use it sometimes, the product is just not production-quality ready. Chatbots are not what's going to make AI great. Am sure there's some commercial utility out there for AI to improve efficiency in certain specific industries, that's what am more interested in hearing about instead.
      - xetplan 3y ago
        The real problem is that "bubble" is a poorly defined word. We shouldn't use the same word to describe the tulip bubble and the dot com bubble. The tulip bubble to me is what we really think of as a bubble. A collective mania causing price to go up in a completely irrational way. If we can agree the valuation of a company should be all future discounted cash flows of a company then it doesn't strike me as irrational for the price of stocks during dot com or today to go through the roof. Valuation is really hard and really uncertain and then all the harder for something new and highly disruptive. The problem with using the word bubble in the tulip bubble sense with AI is there is surely no guarantee the price of NVDA is going to fall sharply from here as if it was a tulip bulb selling for the price of a house.
deleted 3y ago
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boshalfoshal 3y ago
If you have used any modern product from a big tech company you have likely interacted with AI (probably some form of DL or statistical learning) in some capacity. Do you use gmail, youtube, or google search? All 3 products use AI for several features, big and small. It might not register immediately since its not as overt as ChatGPT, but recommending you a new video to watch, a new restaurant to go to, or some product to buy is likely driven by some form of AI. Do you drive a car with lane keep assist? Same deal.
- Timber-6539 3y ago
  Got it. So we are calling all algorithms programmed to do recommendations AI now.
  - d1sxeyes 3y ago
    I think the jury is still out on whether any type of intelligence is anything but highly-complex algorithms. Where do you think the line should be drawn?
    - Timber-6539 3y ago
      Could start with self awareness/identify formation or even self determination but that's too high a bar for AI.
      - pixl97 3y ago
        You are making up tons of unsubstantiated claims with no data or reasoning. What reason is self awareness needed for an agent to be intelligent? What do you mean by 'self-determination'. Figuring out the rest of it's life?, or just being given a goal and choosing it's own path to get there.
        Timber-6539 3y ago
        > What reason is self awareness needed for an agent to be intelligent? Because some of you daydreamers are convinced AI will replace human intelligence one day. It is important to define and contextualize intelligence. I gave some of the qualities of what AI is up against (human intelligence). That's why it is important for AI to be capable of achieving at least some of these qualities before claiming the world as we know it is coming to an end.

> ML/AI existed before this "bubble" and will continue to exist after. All the more reason to assume the new run up is indeed a bubble. > actual utility What utility?

noobermin 3y ago

Machine learning is a broad field that arguably includes generative AI. ML has a much longer track record and has shown sustainable growth although it did also ride hype too.

Timber-6539 3y ago
The current hype is all about generative AI. That's what am calling a bubble and it has very little utility in the real world if any.
- anon22981 3y ago
  I hate the hype as much as the next guy but even I can see it’s clear as day ”gen ai” is here to stay on some form or another. Denying it is plain ignorance. Also denying it’s real world use is very ignorant as well. I have used generative ai very little yet I’ve gotten very real world use out of it. Image generation for a lecture to conceptualize something as pictures. Help in programming something fast in something unfamiliar. (Needed to use an azure sdk in java which I hadnt used before - instead of reading documentation chatgpt gave me a very usable example and I did the integration part of the work in minutes. I did check some things from docs afterwards, but the example sped the progress by a lot.) Gen ai saves too much time / money / effort on several tasks not to keep on existing. I don’t deny a possible bubble, but a bubble and real world use are not mutually exclusive in the least.
  - Timber-6539 3y ago
    Gen AI is a toy, a useful one I have to admit but it is not solving any real world problems. I use it sometimes, the product is just not production-quality ready. Chatbots are not what's going to make AI great. Am sure there's some commercial utility out there for AI to improve efficiency in certain specific industries, that's what am more interested in hearing about instead.
    - xetplan 3y ago
      The real problem is that "bubble" is a poorly defined word. We shouldn't use the same word to describe the tulip bubble and the dot com bubble. The tulip bubble to me is what we really think of as a bubble. A collective mania causing price to go up in a completely irrational way. If we can agree the valuation of a company should be all future discounted cash flows of a company then it doesn't strike me as irrational for the price of stocks during dot com or today to go through the roof. Valuation is really hard and really uncertain and then all the harder for something new and highly disruptive. The problem with using the word bubble in the tulip bubble sense with AI is there is surely no guarantee the price of NVDA is going to fall sharply from here as if it was a tulip bulb selling for the price of a house.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

boshalfoshal 3y ago

If you have used any modern product from a big tech company you have likely interacted with AI (probably some form of DL or statistical learning) in some capacity. Do you use gmail, youtube, or google search? All 3 products use AI for several features, big and small. It might not register immediately since its not as overt as ChatGPT, but recommending you a new video to watch, a new restaurant to go to, or some product to buy is likely driven by some form of AI. Do you drive a car with lane keep assist? Same deal.

Timber-6539 3y ago
Got it. So we are calling all algorithms programmed to do recommendations AI now.
- d1sxeyes 3y ago
  I think the jury is still out on whether any type of intelligence is anything but highly-complex algorithms. Where do you think the line should be drawn?
  - Timber-6539 3y ago
    Could start with self awareness/identify formation or even self determination but that's too high a bar for AI.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      You are making up tons of unsubstantiated claims with no data or reasoning. What reason is self awareness needed for an agent to be intelligent? What do you mean by 'self-determination'. Figuring out the rest of it's life?, or just being given a goal and choosing it's own path to get there.
      - Timber-6539 3y ago
        > What reason is self awareness needed for an agent to be intelligent? Because some of you daydreamers are convinced AI will replace human intelligence one day. It is important to define and contextualize intelligence. I gave some of the qualities of what AI is up against (human intelligence). That's why it is important for AI to be capable of achieving at least some of these qualities before claiming the world as we know it is coming to an end.