4 ms·

Procreation is a lower dopamine hit than career growth, travel, dating, hobbies, Instagram, flexibility, mobility. We're always on our phones and the internet.

Procreation is a lower dopamine hit than career growth, travel, dating, hobbies, Instagram, flexibility, mobility. We're always on our phones and the internet. There's no space left for even entertaining the idea of kids. Cellphones took their place. And capitalism filled the gaps to occupy us with entertainment for any spare moment. (Who knew we needed "escape rooms"?) Kids were perfect for the farm and nomadic societies. They were essentially free labor to help around the house. They don't fit very well into today's society, where you might just go on a random trip, go partying late at night, or spend your income on your hobby / pet project. I'm saying all of this both tongue-in-cheek (kids are the future and we need them), but also in earnest. I truly think this is a big driver or component of why people aren't having kids. I think this, more than cost burden, is the reason. We're too into our own thing to let a young infant have space.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
A better way to say it is opportunity cost of children is higher now. It used to be your alternative was simple stuff like socializing or doing some basic hobby. Now you have maximally addictive entertainment at your fingertips, not to mention that people are wealthier so they can travel and do other activities. It’s also the reason why wealthier people have fewer kids.
teaearlgraycold 3y ago
[flagged]
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  It probably makes sense to someone who lives their life 100% online.
- RajT88 3y ago
  This whole thread of speculation is pretty crap. The history of speculating why poor people have so many kids is extremely crappy. Let's just stick with what the boffins have come up with, yes?
  - echelon 3y ago
    > Let's just stick with what the boffins have come up with, yes? Speaking for myself and my friends (to whom I have talked about this matter), we have too much going on right now. Life is full.
- basil-rash 3y ago
  Who on their phones all day is meeting new people and settling down with them?
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  There are a lot of people that are now 100% content with streaming services and doom scrolling and don't want to have kids. In the more distant past, it was either a necessity, enforced through social constructs, or was probably seen as a lot more interesting back when entertainment wasn't so all encompassing. During holidays I'll go visit a massive family (my wife's) and she has a bazillion cousins and brothers and almost nobody is getting married. The few that are have no interest in children and it isn't a housing or money problem. They'd just rather live a different lifestyle. I get it for sure, but it's also a bit shocking to see a forecast of how quickly the birthrate is going to drop.
CyberDildonics 3y ago
Has japan had smart phones since 1970? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNTFRTINJPN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNTFRTINJPN
- lmm 3y ago
  Japan was a technological leader in those years; while not smart phones per se, they had plenty of entertainment technology ahead of the rest of the world.
  - CyberDildonics 3y ago
    they had plenty of entertainment technology ahead of the rest of the world. What did they have that the rest of the world didn't?
    - lmm 3y ago
      A bigger bowling boom than elsewhere. The biggest version of the arcade golden age in the world. The Walkman. The first laptops. A stronger service/entertainment culture. Or maybe other countries had a similar fertility decline that was masked by other factors. Did you remember to adjust out the effects of immigration (not just immediately, but in subsequent generations)?
      - CyberDildonics 3y ago
        To be clear, you think that the consistent country wide drop in japanese fertility for the last 50 years was due to bowling alleys, arcades the walkman and the first laptops? Or maybe other countries had a similar fertility decline that was masked by other factors Or maybe they didn't. You are throwing out nonsensical guesses, I linked you real information. Did you remember to adjust out the effects of immigration (not just immediately, but in subsequent generations)? What are you talking about, I linked you a graph of long term statistics. If you have questions about it, click on the link and read.
        3y ago
bloomingeek 3y ago
<Kids were perfect for the farm and nomadic societies. They were essentially free labor to help around the house.> They also mow the yard and help with heavy lifting! All kidding aside, children are also useful/needed in the later life phase of their parents. I watched my wife visit her Mother everyday for the last ten years of her life.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

A better way to say it is opportunity cost of children is higher now. It used to be your alternative was simple stuff like socializing or doing some basic hobby. Now you have maximally addictive entertainment at your fingertips, not to mention that people are wealthier so they can travel and do other activities. It’s also the reason why wealthier people have fewer kids.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago

[flagged]

rootusrootus 3y ago
It probably makes sense to someone who lives their life 100% online.
RajT88 3y ago
This whole thread of speculation is pretty crap. The history of speculating why poor people have so many kids is extremely crappy. Let's just stick with what the boffins have come up with, yes?
- echelon 3y ago
  > Let's just stick with what the boffins have come up with, yes? Speaking for myself and my friends (to whom I have talked about this matter), we have too much going on right now. Life is full.
basil-rash 3y ago
Who on their phones all day is meeting new people and settling down with them?
7thaccount 3y ago
There are a lot of people that are now 100% content with streaming services and doom scrolling and don't want to have kids. In the more distant past, it was either a necessity, enforced through social constructs, or was probably seen as a lot more interesting back when entertainment wasn't so all encompassing. During holidays I'll go visit a massive family (my wife's) and she has a bazillion cousins and brothers and almost nobody is getting married. The few that are have no interest in children and it isn't a housing or money problem. They'd just rather live a different lifestyle. I get it for sure, but it's also a bit shocking to see a forecast of how quickly the birthrate is going to drop.

CyberDildonics 3y ago

Has japan had smart phones since 1970? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNTFRTINJPN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNTFRTINJPN

lmm 3y ago
Japan was a technological leader in those years; while not smart phones per se, they had plenty of entertainment technology ahead of the rest of the world.
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  they had plenty of entertainment technology ahead of the rest of the world. What did they have that the rest of the world didn't?
  - lmm 3y ago
    A bigger bowling boom than elsewhere. The biggest version of the arcade golden age in the world. The Walkman. The first laptops. A stronger service/entertainment culture. Or maybe other countries had a similar fertility decline that was masked by other factors. Did you remember to adjust out the effects of immigration (not just immediately, but in subsequent generations)?
    - CyberDildonics 3y ago
      To be clear, you think that the consistent country wide drop in japanese fertility for the last 50 years was due to bowling alleys, arcades the walkman and the first laptops? Or maybe other countries had a similar fertility decline that was masked by other factors Or maybe they didn't. You are throwing out nonsensical guesses, I linked you real information. Did you remember to adjust out the effects of immigration (not just immediately, but in subsequent generations)? What are you talking about, I linked you a graph of long term statistics. If you have questions about it, click on the link and read.
      - 3y ago

bloomingeek 3y ago

<Kids were perfect for the farm and nomadic societies. They were essentially free labor to help around the house.> They also mow the yard and help with heavy lifting! All kidding aside, children are also useful/needed in the later life phase of their parents. I watched my wife visit her Mother everyday for the last ten years of her life.