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> the history of the many schisms over nonsense is rather tedious You might be missing something from the early Christian Church (after Nicea). The Church des

> the history of the many schisms over nonsense is rather tedious You might be missing something from the early Christian Church (after Nicea). The Church design is hierarchical, with one presiding Bishop with legal jurisdiction over all the activity in their bishopric; hence, fighting over authority. The tedious philosophical differences are the vestige now because the books and writing remain while the people are long gone. At the time, there was much more at stake. Secondly, Church creed was carefully and thoroughly unified at Nicea in a formal process. Heresy was well-identified and definitely resolved, but sometimes through in-fights or at worst excommunications.

skybrian 3y ago
Yes, I have the impression that it was really more about politics than theology and they would be quick to disagree about anything. Often, misconstruing the opinions of others. (Sound familiar?) But apparently these disputes were often with bishops of other cities, so I don't really see what it had to do with power?
- mistrial9 3y ago
  (edit above) Church authority was codified in writing. That was basic to the construct of Christianity, directly evolving from the extensive system of Jewish Law. Authority over the written scripture was a closed system. Authority as a general thing? lots of reasons to fight about authority -- this might need some specific examples to get more context.
  - skybrian 3y ago
    Hmm, so the real problem was writing down what they supposedly agree on in detail and trying to make it law? I wonder if an emperor ever tried to get them to stop doing that, leaving it between each person and God?
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      slavery and warfare imposed itself by force on every random group of people that could be found in the ancient Middle East and along huge trade routes from there. Large areas of fertile Earth had nowhere to hide from the attacks of neighbors. Where in your example, would a mother be able to have children and raise them? In some times in India, it was actually a problem for tribes that young and old men would go find some secluded place to find themselves and god. Actual tasks of daily life, medicine and comfort were neglected for the other eighty percent of the population that were not young or old men. In some sense it is selfish to insist on seclusion by individuals. The lesson is not at all obvious to the person who is thinking that way.
- elcritch 3y ago
  > > the history of the many schisms over nonsense is rather tedious From the outside it can seem tedious. Certainly some of them are tedious. However, some of these controversies were important philosophically. For example, the fights over whether religious (flat painted) icons were idolatry or not changed the development of European art. The development and arguments over "correct" Christian theology also had enormous impacts on European thought and philosophy. Personally, I believe the Christian belief of Jesus being "theanthropos" (fully God and man) helped lead to the modern European ideals of human rights and eventual elimination of slavery. > Yes, I have the impression that it was really more about politics than theology and they would be quick to disagree about anything. Often, misconstruing the opinions of others. (Sound familiar?) Definitely many of these arguments were political, and probably not much different than the modern culture "wars" in the USA. Many of them were probably petty, but some were profound.
  - timeon 3y ago
    > Personally, I believe the Christian belief of Jesus being "theanthropos" (fully God and man) helped lead to the modern European ideals of human rights and eventual elimination of slavery. Similarly one could also argue that this focus on human led to climate-change. But seriously, this focus is older than Christianity. It is already in Genesis - where there are two versions of creation story. First where everything leads to man - here other animals are created first. Second where everything is created for man - here other animals are created after.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    > Personally, I believe the Christian belief of Jesus being "theanthropos" (fully God and man) helped lead to the modern European ideals of human rights and eventual elimination of slavery. How do you reconcile the millennium between that schism and the development of the modern European ideals of human rights or the eventual elimination of slavery? Jesus was theologically theanthropos for the entirety of the colonization era and the triangular trade period.
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      the institution of slavery through the ancient Middle East was more powerful, more entrenched, and those that practiced it had serious weapons and jails. It is a triumph that was long won to end the brutal practices of human slavery. You turn this around like it is the fault of the nice people that it didn't happen faster.

skybrian 3y ago

Yes, I have the impression that it was really more about politics than theology and they would be quick to disagree about anything. Often, misconstruing the opinions of others. (Sound familiar?) But apparently these disputes were often with bishops of other cities, so I don't really see what it had to do with power?

mistrial9 3y ago
(edit above) Church authority was codified in writing. That was basic to the construct of Christianity, directly evolving from the extensive system of Jewish Law. Authority over the written scripture was a closed system. Authority as a general thing? lots of reasons to fight about authority -- this might need some specific examples to get more context.
- skybrian 3y ago
  Hmm, so the real problem was writing down what they supposedly agree on in detail and trying to make it law? I wonder if an emperor ever tried to get them to stop doing that, leaving it between each person and God?
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    slavery and warfare imposed itself by force on every random group of people that could be found in the ancient Middle East and along huge trade routes from there. Large areas of fertile Earth had nowhere to hide from the attacks of neighbors. Where in your example, would a mother be able to have children and raise them? In some times in India, it was actually a problem for tribes that young and old men would go find some secluded place to find themselves and god. Actual tasks of daily life, medicine and comfort were neglected for the other eighty percent of the population that were not young or old men. In some sense it is selfish to insist on seclusion by individuals. The lesson is not at all obvious to the person who is thinking that way.
elcritch 3y ago
> > the history of the many schisms over nonsense is rather tedious From the outside it can seem tedious. Certainly some of them are tedious. However, some of these controversies were important philosophically. For example, the fights over whether religious (flat painted) icons were idolatry or not changed the development of European art. The development and arguments over "correct" Christian theology also had enormous impacts on European thought and philosophy. Personally, I believe the Christian belief of Jesus being "theanthropos" (fully God and man) helped lead to the modern European ideals of human rights and eventual elimination of slavery. > Yes, I have the impression that it was really more about politics than theology and they would be quick to disagree about anything. Often, misconstruing the opinions of others. (Sound familiar?) Definitely many of these arguments were political, and probably not much different than the modern culture "wars" in the USA. Many of them were probably petty, but some were profound.
- timeon 3y ago
  > Personally, I believe the Christian belief of Jesus being "theanthropos" (fully God and man) helped lead to the modern European ideals of human rights and eventual elimination of slavery. Similarly one could also argue that this focus on human led to climate-change. But seriously, this focus is older than Christianity. It is already in Genesis - where there are two versions of creation story. First where everything leads to man - here other animals are created first. Second where everything is created for man - here other animals are created after.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  > Personally, I believe the Christian belief of Jesus being "theanthropos" (fully God and man) helped lead to the modern European ideals of human rights and eventual elimination of slavery. How do you reconcile the millennium between that schism and the development of the modern European ideals of human rights or the eventual elimination of slavery? Jesus was theologically theanthropos for the entirety of the colonization era and the triangular trade period.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    the institution of slavery through the ancient Middle East was more powerful, more entrenched, and those that practiced it had serious weapons and jails. It is a triumph that was long won to end the brutal practices of human slavery. You turn this around like it is the fault of the nice people that it didn't happen faster.