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> but the assertion that raising and slaughtering your own animals is evil relies on the unproven assertion that animal deaths are inherently wrong even after a

by 9dev 3y ago

> but the assertion that raising and slaughtering your own animals is evil relies on the unproven assertion that animal deaths are inherently wrong even after a good life. Anyone who ever owned a pet, or witnessed young foals or calves actually growing up naturally, will have noticed these animals to dream, to be joyful, frustrated, gleeful, or moody. They play, they enjoy learning stuff and have personalities - in short, they are sentient beings with a subjective experience, even if that experience is very different from ours - there is no way to know. We do not let people kill elderly humans, even if they lived a good life. What is the fundamental difference between a human and an animal, if both experience their existence, both can suffer, and both really want to stay alive?

ricardobeat 3y ago
We don’t eat other humans for sustenance (most of us, at least). Death is natural. Entire ecosystems are based on animals killing and eating each other. Are they evil? I don’t believe so. Our conscience allows us to take a higher moral ground, but eliminating meat consumption entirely is not necessarily the end goal.
strken 3y ago
I think your question is going to have a different answer for everyone, but for me: A) The average human fears and understands death even at several removes, and in particular would understand they were being raised for slaughter. I don't believe this to be the case for most farm animals. I don't believe chickens suffer from expectation in the same way humans would, and I wouldn't eat e.g. great apes because of the possibility that they might. B) It is unacceptable to allow the killing of humans and the desecration and consumption of human remains except in some extreme cases, because doing so would harm our social fabric and make still-living humans feel awful. This protects even humans who wouldn't be able to understand abstract future harms. C) Also, it feels wrong, and killing a chicken doesn't. I know this answer is likely dissatisfying to you because you feel that killing a chicken is also wrong, but we're all making choices by gut feeling to some extent.

by 9dev 3y ago

ricardobeat 3y ago

We don’t eat other humans for sustenance (most of us, at least). Death is natural. Entire ecosystems are based on animals killing and eating each other. Are they evil? I don’t believe so. Our conscience allows us to take a higher moral ground, but eliminating meat consumption entirely is not necessarily the end goal.

strken 3y ago

I think your question is going to have a different answer for everyone, but for me: A) The average human fears and understands death even at several removes, and in particular would understand they were being raised for slaughter. I don't believe this to be the case for most farm animals. I don't believe chickens suffer from expectation in the same way humans would, and I wouldn't eat e.g. great apes because of the possibility that they might. B) It is unacceptable to allow the killing of humans and the desecration and consumption of human remains except in some extreme cases, because doing so would harm our social fabric and make still-living humans feel awful. This protects even humans who wouldn't be able to understand abstract future harms. C) Also, it feels wrong, and killing a chicken doesn't. I know this answer is likely dissatisfying to you because you feel that killing a chicken is also wrong, but we're all making choices by gut feeling to some extent.