5 ms·

> They lost big on the mobile OS. It is the biggest blunder of Microsoft. I've watched Bill Gates tell Andrew Ross Sorkin during an interview "if it wasn't for

> They lost big on the mobile OS. It is the biggest blunder of Microsoft. I've watched Bill Gates tell Andrew Ross Sorkin during an interview "if it wasn't for the FTC investigating us for the anti-trust lawsuit, we wouldn't have been distracted/took our eye off the prize on mobile" How sure are we Microsoft "has what it takes/had what it took" to deliver a phone + operating system as polished as Apple? Windows 11 is very much measurably worse than Mac OS Sonoma. Littered with ads, in between old UI + new UI patterns, etc. That's 2024 I'm not super confident I'd prefer a Microsoft/Windows mobile OS and therefore I'm not super confident they could actually have delivered a good one

fragmede 3y ago
It doesn't matter if it's any good, it just has to be functional, which Microsoft proved they can do, since windows phones existed. Microsoft has the business side (aka money and patience that Google doesn't) to make it happen. Look at how well Microsoft Teams is doing. Look at Bing, now that it's got ChatGPT behind it.
quantisan 3y ago
I had multiple Microsoft Lumia as my primary driver for a couple years. I've been on iPhones for 10+ years total. There were some good (better user interface) and bad (Live logins required in random places) with Windows Mobile. Like Windows, they have pockets of good ideas fractured by their lack of cohesion.
mattmaroon 3y ago
I think Windows Mobile could have been better than Android. In fact, at one point it debatably was. Personally I think Windows is considerably more usable than OSX (yeah I know that’s going to offend people and raise a near-religious argument) and while I won’t say Microsoft’s hardware is or ever was as good as Apple’s, I think they are far better at UI/UX and hardware than Google. Actually I think they’re better at almost everything than Google. They could have easily been where Android is now if they were two years faster. I think we’d just have a different duopoly and iPhone would still be basically where it is today.
- blagie 3y ago
  > I won’t say Microsoft’s hardware is or ever was as good as Apple’s, I think they are far better at UI/UX and hardware than Google. Microsoft-proper hardware is crap, even compared to high-end Google. However, that doesn't matter. My Thinkpad eats Apple hardware for breakfast (as well as anything from Google or Microsoft). Dell has a few nicer laptops in the Precision line which do almost as well as Thinkpad, and definitely better than Apple / Google / Microsoft. It's the ecosystem. > Actually I think they’re better at almost everything than Google. I'd agree, except: - Hardware - Office 365 typing synchronization Google Pixel Pro is quite good (as are most top-of-the-line Google phones), as was the Chromebook Pixel (their top-of-the-line Chromebook, when they made it).
AlienRobot 3y ago
I find this ironic because you could say many of the problems with modern Windows (& Linux) GUI stem from distancing the design from the traditional desktop paradigm and seeking to mobile-fy everything, specially with large click targets.
blagie 3y ago
Microsoft has gotten pretty good at software development. Satya Nadella has been doing a surprisingly good job reforming everything about the company. That doesn't mean Windows wasn't absolute dogs--t for many years and isn't riddled with a pile of technical debt. Apple, in contrast, started with NeXTStep. I agree about the specifics you mention (built-in ads and spyware), but the core problems with Windows predate modern Microsoft, and can't really big fixed. If, in 2024, Microsoft decided to invest in building a real mobile OS, I think they could do okay. The bigger problem would be lack of app ecosystem, and the chicken-and-egg problem with that and users. It's not clear even the best mobile OS could displace Android + iOS. If I were Microsoft, and I wanted to get in, I'd probably fork Android, to maintain app compatibility. Doing that well would mean killing the goose which is currently laying the golden eggs, though, as it would require replacing Google apps with Microsoft ones. A lot of what makes Android work are free Google accounts, whereas Office 365 is $100 per year. I don't think a Microsoft phone would be competitive unless it had all the same stuff for free, and likely more. I actually feel like Android is starting to be a little bit vulnerable; a privacy-preserving, non-user-hostile version could have pretty good uptake. Again, not the business Microsoft is in.

fragmede 3y ago

It doesn't matter if it's any good, it just has to be functional, which Microsoft proved they can do, since windows phones existed. Microsoft has the business side (aka money and patience that Google doesn't) to make it happen. Look at how well Microsoft Teams is doing. Look at Bing, now that it's got ChatGPT behind it.

quantisan 3y ago

I had multiple Microsoft Lumia as my primary driver for a couple years. I've been on iPhones for 10+ years total. There were some good (better user interface) and bad (Live logins required in random places) with Windows Mobile. Like Windows, they have pockets of good ideas fractured by their lack of cohesion.

mattmaroon 3y ago

I think Windows Mobile could have been better than Android. In fact, at one point it debatably was. Personally I think Windows is considerably more usable than OSX (yeah I know that’s going to offend people and raise a near-religious argument) and while I won’t say Microsoft’s hardware is or ever was as good as Apple’s, I think they are far better at UI/UX and hardware than Google. Actually I think they’re better at almost everything than Google. They could have easily been where Android is now if they were two years faster. I think we’d just have a different duopoly and iPhone would still be basically where it is today.

blagie 3y ago
> I won’t say Microsoft’s hardware is or ever was as good as Apple’s, I think they are far better at UI/UX and hardware than Google. Microsoft-proper hardware is crap, even compared to high-end Google. However, that doesn't matter. My Thinkpad eats Apple hardware for breakfast (as well as anything from Google or Microsoft). Dell has a few nicer laptops in the Precision line which do almost as well as Thinkpad, and definitely better than Apple / Google / Microsoft. It's the ecosystem. > Actually I think they’re better at almost everything than Google. I'd agree, except: - Hardware - Office 365 typing synchronization Google Pixel Pro is quite good (as are most top-of-the-line Google phones), as was the Chromebook Pixel (their top-of-the-line Chromebook, when they made it).

AlienRobot 3y ago

I find this ironic because you could say many of the problems with modern Windows (& Linux) GUI stem from distancing the design from the traditional desktop paradigm and seeking to mobile-fy everything, specially with large click targets.

blagie 3y ago

Microsoft has gotten pretty good at software development. Satya Nadella has been doing a surprisingly good job reforming everything about the company. That doesn't mean Windows wasn't absolute dogs--t for many years and isn't riddled with a pile of technical debt. Apple, in contrast, started with NeXTStep. I agree about the specifics you mention (built-in ads and spyware), but the core problems with Windows predate modern Microsoft, and can't really big fixed. If, in 2024, Microsoft decided to invest in building a real mobile OS, I think they could do okay. The bigger problem would be lack of app ecosystem, and the chicken-and-egg problem with that and users. It's not clear even the best mobile OS could displace Android + iOS. If I were Microsoft, and I wanted to get in, I'd probably fork Android, to maintain app compatibility. Doing that well would mean killing the goose which is currently laying the golden eggs, though, as it would require replacing Google apps with Microsoft ones. A lot of what makes Android work are free Google accounts, whereas Office 365 is $100 per year. I don't think a Microsoft phone would be competitive unless it had all the same stuff for free, and likely more. I actually feel like Android is starting to be a little bit vulnerable; a privacy-preserving, non-user-hostile version could have pretty good uptake. Again, not the business Microsoft is in.