5 ms·

I never really got the point of the Z1 non-extreme. If it enabled them to ship a device for $400 or less then it would make some sense as a Steam Deck competito

I never really got the point of the Z1 non-extreme. If it enabled them to ship a device for $400 or less then it would make some sense as a Steam Deck competitor, but not when the Z1 ally was $600 and you could double the performance by going up to $700. (I know it's gone on sale for ~$450, but IMO that should have been the launch price, with sales putting it below $400.) Honestly, the whole Z1 lineup puzzles me a bit, since it feels like just a re-badge of the regular mobile chips with some slight tuning. If AMD was going to go through the effort of making a gaming focused chip, they should lean into that with more emphasis on the GPU side, and perhaps some extra cache or more memory bandwidth. Maybe even drop a couple of CPU cores. What we got instead just feels like a cheap marketing ploy.

wtallis 3y ago
I'm not sure there was any special tuning or binning involved. I think Asus just bought special branding without having any influence on AMD's silicon roadmap.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Asus uses custom firmware for more performance consistency, but yeah the silicon is the same AFAIK.
  - wtallis 3y ago
    I doubt their custom firmware is any more custom than any other mobile device. Every product needs custom fan curves and power and temperature limits.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  Lenovo got the same chip (Z1 Extreme).
ip26 3y ago
Special tuning today, custom silicon tomorrow. Maybe this is the MVP of handheld PC gaming.
agloe_dreams 3y ago
All of this is weird personally. I think it is weird that the 7840u (Z1X laptop model #) exists in the first place. It has a wildly overpowered GPU for a mobile chip of it's type and while they quote a 28W TDP, the actual max-power draw is stratospheric for a U series (well over 50 watts). To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked to find out the Z1X internally came, as a concept at least, before the 7840u. Meanwhile, the Z1 is so wildly weak in comparison. It is only 1/3 the TFlops.
- nfriedly 3y ago
  > I think it is weird that the 7840u (Z1X laptop model #) exists in the first place. It has a wildly overpowered GPU for a mobile chip of it's type... I have a handheld with a 7840U (GPD Win Mini), and I love it. I do use it mostly for games, and I suppose if it were labeled a Z1 Extreme instead of a 7840U, I'd be just as happy with it. So I can somewhat see where you're coming from. But also I think it's becoming more common to want to run "real" (non-gaming) workloads that can leverage a GPU on devices without a discrete GPU, so I still think it makes sense as a general-purpose part. (Also, I think the Z1 was an Asus-exclusive part, at least initially, so if there wasn't a non-exclusive variant, then I'd be stuck with something inferior.) > ...and while they quote a 28W TDP, the actual max-power draw is stratospheric for a U series (well over 50 watts). The ideal TDP for that chip is around 18W, with diminishing returns after that. (I usually run mine at 7-13W depending on the game.) Beyond 25-30W, you get only marginal performance gains relative to the amount of additional power, so while it technically can use over 50 watts, it's clearly not designed for that and the extra performance isn't worth it when you're running on battery.
- wtallis 3y ago
  The 7840U is the same die as the 7940HS. AMD only did two mobile processor dies this generation; Phoenix 2 is in the Z1 and the larger Phoenix is in the Z1 Extreme, 7840U and 7940HS, among others. So they're doing a lot of product differentiation solely through adjusting power and clock limits, which is confounded by the leeway OEMs have to further adjust those limits.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago

wtallis 3y ago

I'm not sure there was any special tuning or binning involved. I think Asus just bought special branding without having any influence on AMD's silicon roadmap.

brucethemoose2 3y ago
Asus uses custom firmware for more performance consistency, but yeah the silicon is the same AFAIK.
- wtallis 3y ago
  I doubt their custom firmware is any more custom than any other mobile device. Every product needs custom fan curves and power and temperature limits.
bsimpson 3y ago
Lenovo got the same chip (Z1 Extreme).

ip26 3y ago

Special tuning today, custom silicon tomorrow. Maybe this is the MVP of handheld PC gaming.

agloe_dreams 3y ago

All of this is weird personally. I think it is weird that the 7840u (Z1X laptop model #) exists in the first place. It has a wildly overpowered GPU for a mobile chip of it's type and while they quote a 28W TDP, the actual max-power draw is stratospheric for a U series (well over 50 watts). To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked to find out the Z1X internally came, as a concept at least, before the 7840u. Meanwhile, the Z1 is so wildly weak in comparison. It is only 1/3 the TFlops.

nfriedly 3y ago
> I think it is weird that the 7840u (Z1X laptop model #) exists in the first place. It has a wildly overpowered GPU for a mobile chip of it's type... I have a handheld with a 7840U (GPD Win Mini), and I love it. I do use it mostly for games, and I suppose if it were labeled a Z1 Extreme instead of a 7840U, I'd be just as happy with it. So I can somewhat see where you're coming from. But also I think it's becoming more common to want to run "real" (non-gaming) workloads that can leverage a GPU on devices without a discrete GPU, so I still think it makes sense as a general-purpose part. (Also, I think the Z1 was an Asus-exclusive part, at least initially, so if there wasn't a non-exclusive variant, then I'd be stuck with something inferior.) > ...and while they quote a 28W TDP, the actual max-power draw is stratospheric for a U series (well over 50 watts). The ideal TDP for that chip is around 18W, with diminishing returns after that. (I usually run mine at 7-13W depending on the game.) Beyond 25-30W, you get only marginal performance gains relative to the amount of additional power, so while it technically can use over 50 watts, it's clearly not designed for that and the extra performance isn't worth it when you're running on battery.
wtallis 3y ago
The 7840U is the same die as the 7940HS. AMD only did two mobile processor dies this generation; Phoenix 2 is in the Z1 and the larger Phoenix is in the Z1 Extreme, 7840U and 7940HS, among others. So they're doing a lot of product differentiation solely through adjusting power and clock limits, which is confounded by the leeway OEMs have to further adjust those limits.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago