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>The only compelling reasons I can think of off the top of my head are interop with existing software and that C and C++ developers would require a bit of train

by carlmr 3y ago

>The only compelling reasons I can think of off the top of my head are interop with existing software and that C and C++ developers would require a bit of training to move to safer languages. Decent C and C++ developers shouldn't take that long to grasp the borrow-checker. Those that don't can't be trusted coding C or C++ in the first place. Because they don't have a good enough mental model of memory management to deal with it manually. Interop with C is fairly straightforward. Python also with PyO3. C++ has some support. > There may also be a few problem domains that demand the maximum performance and lowest resource utilization possible You can approach that with Rust as well. Often you can even do performance improvements better and safer then in C++, because the borrow checker helps you stay safe. Especially CoW is a godsend when processing data.

JoshTriplett 3y ago
> Decent C and C++ developers shouldn't take that long to grasp the borrow-checker. Those that don't can't be trusted coding C or C++ in the first place. Because they don't have a good enough mental model of memory management to deal with it manually. In fairness to C and C++ developers: while often the problem is not understanding memory management, sometimes the problem is understanding it and having a model that doesn't mesh with borrow checking, or having a problem that needs some additional work to map into something easy to write in safe code. For instance, it takes some additional knowledge in Rust to know that if you want to build a graph, you 1) should almost always use an established graph library and not write your own, and 2) if you do need to write your own graph, you either need to use Rc, have an array of nodes and use indices, or use unsafe and raw pointers and provide a nice safe well-tested wrapper. (I'm one of the developers of Rust, and I think it's important to characterize languages fairly.)
- carlmr 3y ago
  I don't disagree with either of your points, but when I learned Rust, those points about borrow-checker vs graphs in the cycle were entirely clear after looking at the first few tutorial lessons on the borrow-checker. Maybe day 2 of learning Rust for me. And coming from C++, Rc is not such a foreign concept compared to smart pointers. Coming from C it might be a bit more of a foreign concept I'll admit.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
binary132 3y ago
Decent C and C++ developers know how to use static and dynamic memory analysis.

by carlmr 3y ago

JoshTriplett 3y ago

> Decent C and C++ developers shouldn't take that long to grasp the borrow-checker. Those that don't can't be trusted coding C or C++ in the first place. Because they don't have a good enough mental model of memory management to deal with it manually. In fairness to C and C++ developers: while often the problem is not understanding memory management, sometimes the problem is understanding it and having a model that doesn't mesh with borrow checking, or having a problem that needs some additional work to map into something easy to write in safe code. For instance, it takes some additional knowledge in Rust to know that if you want to build a graph, you 1) should almost always use an established graph library and not write your own, and 2) if you do need to write your own graph, you either need to use Rc, have an array of nodes and use indices, or use unsafe and raw pointers and provide a nice safe well-tested wrapper. (I'm one of the developers of Rust, and I think it's important to characterize languages fairly.)

carlmr 3y ago
I don't disagree with either of your points, but when I learned Rust, those points about borrow-checker vs graphs in the cycle were entirely clear after looking at the first few tutorial lessons on the borrow-checker. Maybe day 2 of learning Rust for me. And coming from C++, Rc is not such a foreign concept compared to smart pointers. Coming from C it might be a bit more of a foreign concept I'll admit.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

binary132 3y ago

Decent C and C++ developers know how to use static and dynamic memory analysis.