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Care to break down that $1m per bus for staffing? I am in the UK so am not across driver, service engineer, cleaner etc. salaries in America. $80k per year for

by ljf 3y ago

Care to break down that $1m per bus for staffing? I am in the UK so am not across driver, service engineer, cleaner etc. salaries in America. $80k per year for for the bus $50k per driver (https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/us-bus-driver-salary-SRCH_IL.0,2_IN1_KO3,13.htm https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/us-bus-driver-salary-SR...) let's say the bus needs 4 to cover the route 14 hours a day, inc weekends and driver holidays - so $200k $100k engineer (guessing not needed full time for just one bus?) $50k cleaner (guessing not needed full time for just one bus?) Then $570k for fuel and management costs? I've seen figures around $150k per year for fuel. Some (no doubt out of date) figures: https://www.liveabout.com/bus-cost-to-purchase-and-operate-2798845 https://www.liveabout.com/bus-cost-to-purchase-and-operate-2... Just interested where the costs are, I can only assume that the company is making more than $1m a year on the route to take on that expense?

comte7092 3y ago
Note my comment below, parents quotes expenses aren’t grounded in actual audited finances. I’d just note that in the US at least, bus services generally operate at a loss and run many routes due to political reasons rather than efficiency/profitability.
- chgs 3y ago
  Does the interstate system run as a profit?
  - comte7092 3y ago
    Well, obviously not. I wasn’t intending to make a statement on whether or not public transit should be independently profitable, just providing context. I didn’t even touch on ridiculous regulations like “buy America” (aka all buses have to be manufactured in the US) that drive up the cost of transit in a way that private drivers would never accept.
  - malcolmgreaves 3y ago
    Precisely the right question to ask! Profit vs. loss has no relevance when one is providing a public service. The relevant question is cost: capital investment / creation cost & operating cost.
    - comte7092 3y ago
      > Profit vs. loss has no relevance when one is providing a public service. I beg to differ. While profit shouldn’t be the only indicator under consideration, when you are operating a state owned enterprise under a fee for service model, profit is certainly a valid metric to consider.
    - chgs 3y ago
      Cost and benefit. You could spend £10b a year providing a 12tph high speed train from Wales AK to Prudhoe Bay, but there wouldn’t be a reasonable benefit from it.
  - jujube3 3y ago
    The interstate system is almost profitable for the government. Fuel taxes raise somewhere around 30 billion to 40 billion a year, and the amount spent in interstate system maintenance every year is about that amount. If they increased the tax slightly, and stopped siphoning money off of it to fund non-road expenditures, it would be in the black.
xhkkffbf 3y ago
Your estimates are fine, but you're only talking about the basic salary which in the US is only part of the equation. You've got to include benefits including health insurance which is easily $10-20k/year in the US for a family. Add in pension costs and it's a good rule of thumb to double the quoted basic salary. If you do this, the $350k of your estimate becomes $700k. Add in more for two to three layers of management, and you're easily over $1m.
tschwimmer 3y ago
50k per driver per year sounds low. This page [0] suggests the low end is 60k and that's just what the driver makes, not the full loaded cost of the employee with benefits. I've seen the estimate for a loaded cost to be 25-40% more than the salary. So it ends up being more like 75k per driver. [0]https://careers.sf.gov/role/?id=3743990001605626 https://careers.sf.gov/role/?id=3743990001605626 [1]https://www.sba.gov/blog/how-much-does-employee-cost-you#:~:text=This%20includes%20the%20dollars%20and,range%20from%20%2443%2C750%20to%20%2449%2C000 https://www.sba.gov/blog/how-much-does-employee-cost-you#:~:....

by ljf 3y ago

comte7092 3y ago

Note my comment below, parents quotes expenses aren’t grounded in actual audited finances. I’d just note that in the US at least, bus services generally operate at a loss and run many routes due to political reasons rather than efficiency/profitability.

chgs 3y ago
Does the interstate system run as a profit?
- comte7092 3y ago
  Well, obviously not. I wasn’t intending to make a statement on whether or not public transit should be independently profitable, just providing context. I didn’t even touch on ridiculous regulations like “buy America” (aka all buses have to be manufactured in the US) that drive up the cost of transit in a way that private drivers would never accept.
- malcolmgreaves 3y ago
  Precisely the right question to ask! Profit vs. loss has no relevance when one is providing a public service. The relevant question is cost: capital investment / creation cost & operating cost.
  - comte7092 3y ago
    > Profit vs. loss has no relevance when one is providing a public service. I beg to differ. While profit shouldn’t be the only indicator under consideration, when you are operating a state owned enterprise under a fee for service model, profit is certainly a valid metric to consider.
  - chgs 3y ago
    Cost and benefit. You could spend £10b a year providing a 12tph high speed train from Wales AK to Prudhoe Bay, but there wouldn’t be a reasonable benefit from it.
- jujube3 3y ago
  The interstate system is almost profitable for the government. Fuel taxes raise somewhere around 30 billion to 40 billion a year, and the amount spent in interstate system maintenance every year is about that amount. If they increased the tax slightly, and stopped siphoning money off of it to fund non-road expenditures, it would be in the black.

xhkkffbf 3y ago

Your estimates are fine, but you're only talking about the basic salary which in the US is only part of the equation. You've got to include benefits including health insurance which is easily $10-20k/year in the US for a family. Add in pension costs and it's a good rule of thumb to double the quoted basic salary. If you do this, the $350k of your estimate becomes $700k. Add in more for two to three layers of management, and you're easily over $1m.

tschwimmer 3y ago

50k per driver per year sounds low. This page [0] suggests the low end is 60k and that's just what the driver makes, not the full loaded cost of the employee with benefits. I've seen the estimate for a loaded cost to be 25-40% more than the salary. So it ends up being more like 75k per driver. [0]https://careers.sf.gov/role/?id=3743990001605626 https://careers.sf.gov/role/?id=3743990001605626 [1]https://www.sba.gov/blog/how-much-does-employee-cost-you#:~:text=This%20includes%20the%20dollars%20and,range%20from%20%2443%2C750%20to%20%2449%2C000 https://www.sba.gov/blog/how-much-does-employee-cost-you#:~:....