6 ms·

Martians got nuthin on Earthlings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq62GXEX4-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq62GXEX4-U (Just curious why durability wasnt l

Martians got nuthin on Earthlings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq62GXEX4-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq62GXEX4-U (Just curious why durability wasnt like 0. on the project RFP given that its a really far away deployment arena... (Also, to raise money, we should do Battle Bots on Mars. There should be a Twitch Rover (recall that thing from a while back about how many users fought over input into how it was driving...) EDIt: 0. Make durable. 1. Make it Fly. 2. Make it crawl, when 0=[1] and 1=[0].

jareklupinski 3y ago
> we should do Battle Bots on Mars has there ever been a sci-fi movie about 'No-limits barred" competitions on uninhabitable worlds? like go ahead, make a nuclear-powered doomsday bot and fight them on this rock, no one is there anyway
- dkarl 3y ago
  Check out Peace on Earth by Stanislaw Lem.
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    I've got half a mind to read that book again, because there are some things about it that I just can't put my finger on... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosotomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosotomy
- jerf 3y ago
  You have to have limits or in the limit you just end up with "whose nuclear bomb goes off closer to the starting whistle" or some equivalent. Now, even if you are interested in watching that and the precise mechanics of how to shave those last few nanoseconds off the explosion interest you, it's still a problem for "engagement" that the ruleset converges to one solution. Battlebots has had several similar issues over the years and a common discussion on its fan sites is whether or not the most recent rule set (whatever it may be at the time) is also converging on a single solution as the only viable option. Real car racing has an even bigger problem with this, in that the racing leagues simultaneously want to project an image of technological innovation and how all the teams are brilliant geniuses advancing the field of motor sports, while at the same time having to deal with how boring it is when one team ends up winning a hugely disproportionate amount of the time if you really did just leave it down to technical acumen and the vagueries of who started with an engine design this year that happened to have more optimization room than the other engines. They dress it up in a lot of rules and throw a lot of smokescreen up but to a pretty significant degree they basically just find some reason to throw weight penalties on to whoever is winning too much.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Maybe we should put not just one, but several limits, denominated in joules (or kilotons), splitting the competition into "weight classes" in terms of maximum energy transfer. So e.g. flyweight class could end up being a competition between smart subsonic bullets, while the middleweight class may see a nuclear bomb facing off against pumped x-ray laser. I'd definitely watch the heck out of it.
    - h2odragon 3y ago
      The production challenges seem daunting: how many cameramen are we prepared to lose filming the fights? "Smart camera drones" ha ha. you seen the unions around the entertainment industry?
      - fragmede 3y ago
        Raises an interesting question of who's laws apply on the Moon in such a case. no country has a unique ownership in the Moon due to the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, but that just means no country owns the Moon. In the case of a camera crew back on Earth, or even on the Moon, would any union contracts apply?
        samstave 3y ago
        . M O O N that spealls Moounion
        TeMPOraL 3y ago
        1969: first human on the Moon. 2069: first union on the Moon.
  - jareklupinski 3y ago
    i think i got one: the winner is chosen by 'style', instead of simply strongest bot while competing, camera drones and internal POV cams stream to audiences, who can 'feedback' to the robot i don't want to go down the 'microtransaction' route, but maybe there's a way teams could leverage that to bide their style during less tense moments, before pumping it up when the time is right
delecti 3y ago
Considering how low their stated expectations were for Ingenuity, I think it was more than durable enough. It's a huge bummer that it's grounded, but it was also a fantastic resounding success. Also, 0. was "get it to fly", and that required a pretty wild rotation speed, which probably limited their ability to make it much more durable.
acdha 3y ago
Remember that people were skeptical that they could pull off flight at all, and they set the bar for success at 5 flights but delivered 72 before it crashed! The linked story about how it narrowly got there is well worth reading: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/before-ingenuity-ever-landed-on-mars-scientists-almost-managed-to-kill-it/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/before-ingenuity-ever-...
fragmede 3y ago
Haven't we proven we can do "durability" and "crawl", with Curiosity, Spirit, and Opportunity lasting several years longer than planned? Ingenuity was only supposed to last 30 days, but far exceeded that, even if the rotor did snap off. 0=[3+] 1=[1] 2=[2]

jareklupinski 3y ago

> we should do Battle Bots on Mars has there ever been a sci-fi movie about 'No-limits barred" competitions on uninhabitable worlds? like go ahead, make a nuclear-powered doomsday bot and fight them on this rock, no one is there anyway

dkarl 3y ago
Check out Peace on Earth by Stanislaw Lem.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  I've got half a mind to read that book again, because there are some things about it that I just can't put my finger on... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosotomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosotomy
jerf 3y ago
You have to have limits or in the limit you just end up with "whose nuclear bomb goes off closer to the starting whistle" or some equivalent. Now, even if you are interested in watching that and the precise mechanics of how to shave those last few nanoseconds off the explosion interest you, it's still a problem for "engagement" that the ruleset converges to one solution. Battlebots has had several similar issues over the years and a common discussion on its fan sites is whether or not the most recent rule set (whatever it may be at the time) is also converging on a single solution as the only viable option. Real car racing has an even bigger problem with this, in that the racing leagues simultaneously want to project an image of technological innovation and how all the teams are brilliant geniuses advancing the field of motor sports, while at the same time having to deal with how boring it is when one team ends up winning a hugely disproportionate amount of the time if you really did just leave it down to technical acumen and the vagueries of who started with an engine design this year that happened to have more optimization room than the other engines. They dress it up in a lot of rules and throw a lot of smokescreen up but to a pretty significant degree they basically just find some reason to throw weight penalties on to whoever is winning too much.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Maybe we should put not just one, but several limits, denominated in joules (or kilotons), splitting the competition into "weight classes" in terms of maximum energy transfer. So e.g. flyweight class could end up being a competition between smart subsonic bullets, while the middleweight class may see a nuclear bomb facing off against pumped x-ray laser. I'd definitely watch the heck out of it.
  - h2odragon 3y ago
    The production challenges seem daunting: how many cameramen are we prepared to lose filming the fights? "Smart camera drones" ha ha. you seen the unions around the entertainment industry?
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Raises an interesting question of who's laws apply on the Moon in such a case. no country has a unique ownership in the Moon due to the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, but that just means no country owns the Moon. In the case of a camera crew back on Earth, or even on the Moon, would any union contracts apply?
      - samstave 3y ago
        . M O O N that spealls Moounion
        TeMPOraL 3y ago
        1969: first human on the Moon. 2069: first union on the Moon.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  i think i got one: the winner is chosen by 'style', instead of simply strongest bot while competing, camera drones and internal POV cams stream to audiences, who can 'feedback' to the robot i don't want to go down the 'microtransaction' route, but maybe there's a way teams could leverage that to bide their style during less tense moments, before pumping it up when the time is right

delecti 3y ago

Considering how low their stated expectations were for Ingenuity, I think it was more than durable enough. It's a huge bummer that it's grounded, but it was also a fantastic resounding success. Also, 0. was "get it to fly", and that required a pretty wild rotation speed, which probably limited their ability to make it much more durable.

acdha 3y ago

Remember that people were skeptical that they could pull off flight at all, and they set the bar for success at 5 flights but delivered 72 before it crashed! The linked story about how it narrowly got there is well worth reading: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/before-ingenuity-ever-landed-on-mars-scientists-almost-managed-to-kill-it/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/before-ingenuity-ever-...

fragmede 3y ago

Haven't we proven we can do "durability" and "crawl", with Curiosity, Spirit, and Opportunity lasting several years longer than planned? Ingenuity was only supposed to last 30 days, but far exceeded that, even if the rotor did snap off. 0=[3+] 1=[1] 2=[2]