3 ms·

Alternative would be libertarian socialism, with economy of some mixture of cooperative economics, decentralized planning, gift economy and library economy.

colonwqbang 3y ago
Do you have any good links that explain more? In my mind the ideas of socialism and libertarianism are polar opposites.
- TotalCrackpot 3y ago
  It's probably best to watch some YT videos by Anark https://www.youtube.com/@Anark https://www.youtube.com/@Anark or Andrewism https://www.youtube.com/@Andrewism https://www.youtube.com/@Andrewism on Youtube. Anark is very pedantic which I like, while Andrewism is more chill. Take your time especially with Anark's videos, cause they are veeeeery pedantic and can overwhelm with their information content.
- harimau777 3y ago
  Libertarian socialism tends to reject both corporate power/ownership and state power/ownership in favor of worker led ownership. They aren't necessarily libertarian socialism per se, but there area also lots of variations of socialism that combine social liberalism with economic socialism or which are fine with greater collectivism but reject central planning.
- amalcon 3y ago
  I'm guessing you're a fellow American? Or talk to a lot of Americans online? Here, for some reason, left-libertarians barely seem to exist compared to right-libertarians. They aren't that uncommon elsewhere, though. The distinction is mainly that they want to weaken power structures of all sorts, not just governments. Wikipedia on left-libertarianism isn't too bad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism), though notably missing a "Criticism" section. Note that I don't endorse the views described in that article. I am expressing neither support nor opposition for left-libertarianism as a political philosophy. I have zero interest in debating the merits or demerits here at this time; I'm only trying to answer a question.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Here are some links to get you started. If you asked about my idea economic philosophy 10 years ago, I probably would have gone on at length about Proudon's Mutualism. However, now I think that like Georgism/LVT, it is outdated due to the focus on Material means of production, and doesnt account for the increasing importance of white collar knowledge work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon#Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon#Philoso... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
parineum 3y ago
I don't understand how what you've just said isn't the same as what we would currently call a social democracy with a capitalist economy. Specifically, "decentralized planning" is a synonym of capitalism and the other concepts your using exist already, enabled by the capitalist ethos of allowing the individual to use their capital as they see fit.
- TotalCrackpot 3y ago
  Libertarian socialism rejects representative democracy, they favour horizontal institutions with instantly recallable delegates instead of representives.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I think it also seeks to minimize democracy itself, in favor of anarchy wherever possible, if not entirely.
    - TotalCrackpot 3y ago
      If by anarchy you mean freedom of association, then sure.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I dont follow the distinction you are drawing. The point that I was making is that democracy is still a tool for restricting indidvidual freedoms of all types. You can have a controlling tyranny of the majority in direct democracy just like a representative ones. A feature of libertarianism is seeking to minimize the scope of state control and authority, irrespective of government mechanism. That is to say, the purpose of direct democracy is still to tell people what they can, cant, and must do.

colonwqbang 3y ago

Do you have any good links that explain more? In my mind the ideas of socialism and libertarianism are polar opposites.

TotalCrackpot 3y ago
It's probably best to watch some YT videos by Anark https://www.youtube.com/@Anark https://www.youtube.com/@Anark or Andrewism https://www.youtube.com/@Andrewism https://www.youtube.com/@Andrewism on Youtube. Anark is very pedantic which I like, while Andrewism is more chill. Take your time especially with Anark's videos, cause they are veeeeery pedantic and can overwhelm with their information content.
harimau777 3y ago
Libertarian socialism tends to reject both corporate power/ownership and state power/ownership in favor of worker led ownership. They aren't necessarily libertarian socialism per se, but there area also lots of variations of socialism that combine social liberalism with economic socialism or which are fine with greater collectivism but reject central planning.
amalcon 3y ago
I'm guessing you're a fellow American? Or talk to a lot of Americans online? Here, for some reason, left-libertarians barely seem to exist compared to right-libertarians. They aren't that uncommon elsewhere, though. The distinction is mainly that they want to weaken power structures of all sorts, not just governments. Wikipedia on left-libertarianism isn't too bad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism), though notably missing a "Criticism" section. Note that I don't endorse the views described in that article. I am expressing neither support nor opposition for left-libertarianism as a political philosophy. I have zero interest in debating the merits or demerits here at this time; I'm only trying to answer a question.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Here are some links to get you started. If you asked about my idea economic philosophy 10 years ago, I probably would have gone on at length about Proudon's Mutualism. However, now I think that like Georgism/LVT, it is outdated due to the focus on Material means of production, and doesnt account for the increasing importance of white collar knowledge work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon#Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon#Philoso... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

parineum 3y ago

I don't understand how what you've just said isn't the same as what we would currently call a social democracy with a capitalist economy. Specifically, "decentralized planning" is a synonym of capitalism and the other concepts your using exist already, enabled by the capitalist ethos of allowing the individual to use their capital as they see fit.

TotalCrackpot 3y ago
Libertarian socialism rejects representative democracy, they favour horizontal institutions with instantly recallable delegates instead of representives.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I think it also seeks to minimize democracy itself, in favor of anarchy wherever possible, if not entirely.
  - TotalCrackpot 3y ago
    If by anarchy you mean freedom of association, then sure.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I dont follow the distinction you are drawing. The point that I was making is that democracy is still a tool for restricting indidvidual freedoms of all types. You can have a controlling tyranny of the majority in direct democracy just like a representative ones. A feature of libertarianism is seeking to minimize the scope of state control and authority, irrespective of government mechanism. That is to say, the purpose of direct democracy is still to tell people what they can, cant, and must do.