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I've been saying this for months but every time I get down voted for saying it. It annoys me that people fall for these marketing tactics and keep promoting and

I've been saying this for months but every time I get down voted for saying it. It annoys me that people fall for these marketing tactics and keep promoting and advertising the product for free. It's not just the models though- even tools that started off as open source ended up aiming for VC and stopped being totally open. Examples: LlamaIndex, Langchain, and most likely Ollama.

hackerlight 3y ago
Whoever is lagging will be open source. It's why AMD open sources FSR but Nvidia doesn't do the same for DLSS. There is nothing benevolent about AMD and nothing evil about Nvidia. They are both performing actions that profit maximize given their situation.
- sgu999 3y ago
  > They are both performing actions that profit maximize given their situation. That really rings like moral relativism. Even 15 years ago when we were still talking about "GPGPU" and OpenCL seemed like a serious competitor to Cuda, NVidia was much less open than AMD. Sure you can argue that they are "just" profit maximising, turns out it's quite detrimental to all of us... If what you're saying is that we shouldn't be naive when dealing with for-profit companies and expect good gestures, I agree. But some are more evil than others.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    It isn’t moral relativism. It’s just economic sense. In both cases. There is no moral requirement to be open source. Being closed is not fraud, coercion, theft, dishonest, anti-competitive, … (On the other hand, being open, in situations where closed would be more profitable, is taking the moral high ground. Open provides better value for the customer, user, and community.) Aside from moralizing, the economic puzzle is: How to align the economic incentives of businesses with the real long term community value of openness. While also providing greater resources to successful innovators to incentivize and compound there best efforts. (Note that copyright has been the solution to this problem for cultural artifacts. And patents try to do this for tech, but with more problems and much less success.)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
wokwokwok 3y ago
Isn’t the ollama service already closed source? I’m pretty sure you can’t use it without connecting to the private model binary server. It’s a very small step to a paid docker hub, cough sorry, ollama hub.
- tartakovsky 3y ago
  ollama is MIT licensed unless i am misreading
  - wokwokwok 3y ago
    Look more closely at the software. It does not just magically conjure LLM model files out of thin air. Where do those models come from? https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/2390 https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/2390 The registry is not open source. You think I’m being unfair? https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/914#issuecomment-1953482174 https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/914#issuecomment-195... (Paraphrased) >> How do I run my own registry? > email us, let’s talk.
anhner 3y ago
Haven't been following closely, what's the issue with langchain?
- anhner 3y ago
  why the hell the downvotes for asking a genuine question?
causal 3y ago
If you're genuinely getting value from the open-source versions, how is that "falling for" anything?
- behnamoh 3y ago
  > If you're genuinely getting value from the open-source versions, ... This is only true until the closed-source service they offer is inevitable.
  - wruza 3y ago
    I don't see how my local models could stop working once someone offers closed-source services.
deleted 3y ago
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hackerlight 3y ago

Whoever is lagging will be open source. It's why AMD open sources FSR but Nvidia doesn't do the same for DLSS. There is nothing benevolent about AMD and nothing evil about Nvidia. They are both performing actions that profit maximize given their situation.

sgu999 3y ago
> They are both performing actions that profit maximize given their situation. That really rings like moral relativism. Even 15 years ago when we were still talking about "GPGPU" and OpenCL seemed like a serious competitor to Cuda, NVidia was much less open than AMD. Sure you can argue that they are "just" profit maximising, turns out it's quite detrimental to all of us... If what you're saying is that we shouldn't be naive when dealing with for-profit companies and expect good gestures, I agree. But some are more evil than others.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  It isn’t moral relativism. It’s just economic sense. In both cases. There is no moral requirement to be open source. Being closed is not fraud, coercion, theft, dishonest, anti-competitive, … (On the other hand, being open, in situations where closed would be more profitable, is taking the moral high ground. Open provides better value for the customer, user, and community.) Aside from moralizing, the economic puzzle is: How to align the economic incentives of businesses with the real long term community value of openness. While also providing greater resources to successful innovators to incentivize and compound there best efforts. (Note that copyright has been the solution to this problem for cultural artifacts. And patents try to do this for tech, but with more problems and much less success.)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

wokwokwok 3y ago

Isn’t the ollama service already closed source? I’m pretty sure you can’t use it without connecting to the private model binary server. It’s a very small step to a paid docker hub, cough sorry, ollama hub.

tartakovsky 3y ago
ollama is MIT licensed unless i am misreading
- wokwokwok 3y ago
  Look more closely at the software. It does not just magically conjure LLM model files out of thin air. Where do those models come from? https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/2390 https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/2390 The registry is not open source. You think I’m being unfair? https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/914#issuecomment-1953482174 https://github.com/ollama/ollama/issues/914#issuecomment-195... (Paraphrased) >> How do I run my own registry? > email us, let’s talk.

anhner 3y ago

Haven't been following closely, what's the issue with langchain?

anhner 3y ago
why the hell the downvotes for asking a genuine question?

causal 3y ago

If you're genuinely getting value from the open-source versions, how is that "falling for" anything?

behnamoh 3y ago
> If you're genuinely getting value from the open-source versions, ... This is only true until the closed-source service they offer is inevitable.
- wruza 3y ago
  I don't see how my local models could stop working once someone offers closed-source services.

deleted 3y ago

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