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What part would you describe as “self-made, systemic”? The Mexican cartels? …Chinese labs providing them with fentanyl precursors? Edit to reply: That was sh

What part would you describe as “self-made, systemic”? The Mexican cartels? …Chinese labs providing them with fentanyl precursors? Edit to reply: That was shut down by the FDA when one of the dead children was still a toddler. You’re talking about a problem over a decade old, while ignoring the actual problem, because far from “pointing the finger in the right direction”, you’re distracting from it with your historical grievance. Edit 2: If the point is that unlike China, the US doesn’t execute drug traffickers, okay. I agree — it’s a systemic failure of the US we don’t execute people smuggling fentanyl. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_China https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/asa170162011en.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/asa170... Edit 3: Again, the crackdown started during Obama. > Like many Americans with chronic, disabling pain, Fowlkes felt angry and betrayed as state and federal regulators, starting in the Obama years and intensifying under President Donald Trump, cracked down on opioid prescribing to reduce the toll of overdose deaths. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/28/how-the-opioid-crackdown-is-backfiring-752183 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/28/how-the-opioid-cra... We also invested at the federal level, exactly as you’re suggesting: > While Trump has stressed a law enforcement approach — including broader use of the death penalty for traffickers — his administration has also invested billions in prevention, treatment and research, and last week authorized a respected science group to develop better guidelines for doctors about how to safely treat patients with severe pain. Claiming that I don’t understand systems or am “myopic and ignorant” when you’re wrong about basic facts is about what I expect in these discussions.

piva00 3y ago
The part where doctors were prescribing Purdue's pills by the dozens, creating a huge potential market for the black market to flood with opioids when these people eventually run out of pills. Without that the fentanyl market in the USA would be much more constrained since there wouldn't be a big incentive to push it as there wouldn't be so many opioid addicts in the country The rest is just a consequence of it, Mexican cartels being fed Chinese fentanyl, etc. It'd be good if the USA started to learn to point fingers in the right direction sometimes, it was the lax enforcement of rules when a pharma company went way overboard to increase shareholder value that created this mess, trying to blame that on Mexico or China is absurd. As usual with the USA it's a self-made/self-inflicted systemic issue caused by greed, money over people should be America's motto. > Edit to reply: > That was shut down by the FDA when one of the dead children was still a toddler. > You’re talking about a problem over a decade old, while ignoring the actual problem, because far from “pointing the finger in the right direction”, you’re distracting from it with your historical grievance. Edit because you deleted the reply: No, it wasn't shut down by the FDA, pill mills were still an issue barely 5 years ago. Do you think this kind of issue goes away quickly? A big cohort (relatively speaking) of American society got addicted to Oxy, Percocet, etc., a lot of those ended up buying street drugs to fuel this addiction after doctors stopped prescribing them, the lack of empathy to take care of those people meant that overnight a lot of them had an addiction while having no access to the "safer" products to fuel it. Your society has created a massive problem that will take probably a generation to fix, while your worldview is to go against the by-products of this fuck up. If people in your country were the main focus you'd have by now a federal system to take care of this addiction, to create paths for recovery, instead there's no political or societal will to actually fix the problem, just to have another knee-jerk reaction to the 2nd and 3rd order effects created by it. It's a lack of understanding systems, while your society doesn't understand that systems need holistic and pragmatic approaches to solve complex issues you will keep repeating this idiocy, over and over again. Just look at the vitriol you spout, it's a completely ignorant view of a complex problem but here we are, having to discuss why shoving more money into policing and border control won't pragmatically solve this issue. You just lack empathy and pragmatism, as a society. You are too ideological in stupid ways, one of them is exactly this revanchism and undirected righteousness, you blame the addicts (and the poor, the homeless, etc.) for their issues instead of trying to solve the foundational issues causing these problems. It's simply myopic and ignorant.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
noxs 3y ago
San Francisco is the only city I can breathe marijuana every couple blocks. The bathroom in the city library is full of syringes on the ground. Meanwhile, China doesn't have this severe level of drug issues. So does not many other countries as well.
- piva00 3y ago
  I can breath weed smell in many, many Dutch cities, and even though they do have drug problems (and related gang issues) I have never encountered a bathroom full of syringes, nor found 2 people lying on the floor with needles stuck in their arms on the exit of a central station like I've seen in Market St. Muni/BART. Perhaps there is more to it in America's society that create problems of despair than just the drugs...
GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
It's self-made in that the over prescription of opioids for minor injuries resulted in a large population of people who are chemically addicted. Mexican Cartels and Chinese super labs are just rising to the increased demand

piva00 3y ago

The part where doctors were prescribing Purdue's pills by the dozens, creating a huge potential market for the black market to flood with opioids when these people eventually run out of pills. Without that the fentanyl market in the USA would be much more constrained since there wouldn't be a big incentive to push it as there wouldn't be so many opioid addicts in the country The rest is just a consequence of it, Mexican cartels being fed Chinese fentanyl, etc. It'd be good if the USA started to learn to point fingers in the right direction sometimes, it was the lax enforcement of rules when a pharma company went way overboard to increase shareholder value that created this mess, trying to blame that on Mexico or China is absurd. As usual with the USA it's a self-made/self-inflicted systemic issue caused by greed, money over people should be America's motto. > Edit to reply: > That was shut down by the FDA when one of the dead children was still a toddler. > You’re talking about a problem over a decade old, while ignoring the actual problem, because far from “pointing the finger in the right direction”, you’re distracting from it with your historical grievance. Edit because you deleted the reply: No, it wasn't shut down by the FDA, pill mills were still an issue barely 5 years ago. Do you think this kind of issue goes away quickly? A big cohort (relatively speaking) of American society got addicted to Oxy, Percocet, etc., a lot of those ended up buying street drugs to fuel this addiction after doctors stopped prescribing them, the lack of empathy to take care of those people meant that overnight a lot of them had an addiction while having no access to the "safer" products to fuel it. Your society has created a massive problem that will take probably a generation to fix, while your worldview is to go against the by-products of this fuck up. If people in your country were the main focus you'd have by now a federal system to take care of this addiction, to create paths for recovery, instead there's no political or societal will to actually fix the problem, just to have another knee-jerk reaction to the 2nd and 3rd order effects created by it. It's a lack of understanding systems, while your society doesn't understand that systems need holistic and pragmatic approaches to solve complex issues you will keep repeating this idiocy, over and over again. Just look at the vitriol you spout, it's a completely ignorant view of a complex problem but here we are, having to discuss why shoving more money into policing and border control won't pragmatically solve this issue. You just lack empathy and pragmatism, as a society. You are too ideological in stupid ways, one of them is exactly this revanchism and undirected righteousness, you blame the addicts (and the poor, the homeless, etc.) for their issues instead of trying to solve the foundational issues causing these problems. It's simply myopic and ignorant.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

noxs 3y ago

San Francisco is the only city I can breathe marijuana every couple blocks. The bathroom in the city library is full of syringes on the ground. Meanwhile, China doesn't have this severe level of drug issues. So does not many other countries as well.

piva00 3y ago
I can breath weed smell in many, many Dutch cities, and even though they do have drug problems (and related gang issues) I have never encountered a bathroom full of syringes, nor found 2 people lying on the floor with needles stuck in their arms on the exit of a central station like I've seen in Market St. Muni/BART. Perhaps there is more to it in America's society that create problems of despair than just the drugs...

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago

It's self-made in that the over prescription of opioids for minor injuries resulted in a large population of people who are chemically addicted. Mexican Cartels and Chinese super labs are just rising to the increased demand