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I totally agree it’s also like the move where Microsoft is at least supporting Linux on their systems and cloud as not a backup but to just close you into their

I totally agree it’s also like the move where Microsoft is at least supporting Linux on their systems and cloud as not a backup but to just close you into their ecosystem . Honestly I could see Microsoft buying Huggingface.

bhouston 3y ago
Yes, Microsoft doesn't have to pick the sole winner in AI, but rather they could just start eating the AI ecosystem bit by bit so that they win by default. It is what large players can do. May open themselves up to some scrutiny for too many acquisitions and reducing competition though, but that is a separate issue.
- lostemptations5 3y ago
  And they are used to that issue too. A long history of it.
- solardev 3y ago
  "Microsoft recommends OpenAI as your default overlord. Did you know it can do everything your current AI can do, sometimes better, but always more profitably for us? [Switch now] [Ask me again in 30 seconds]"
- datadrivenangel 3y ago
  This is how microsoft has been doing data for at least 10 years (See databricks). Step 1: Get the industry leaders to be purchasable via Azure. Step 2: Slowly build your own clone and start stealing user share even though your offering is still worse.
JimDabell 3y ago
I’ve had similar thoughts, Microsoft buying Huggingface would be very similar to them buying GitHub.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  Please, god, no. I can’t think of two more antithetical companies.
  - jahsome 3y ago
    Would you mind elaborating why? I'm not super experienced in the AI world, and barely use Hugging Face. Frankly, the name makes it difficult to take it seriously.
    - bugglebeetle 3y ago
      Hugging Face is very supportive of the open source machine learning community, both in the work they do with the transformers library, as well going above and beyond in developer and community relations to build an all around great product offering and user experience. Microsoft does the opposite of all of those things and has only made GitHub worse and more unstable since acquiring them.
btown 3y ago
This has me thinking about the context behind the striking quote in https://www.theinformation.com/articles/how-microsoft-swallowed-its-pride-to-make-a-massive-bet-on-openai https://www.theinformation.com/articles/how-microsoft-swallo... (May 2023, months before the OpenAI drama): > Nadella [in December 2022] abruptly cut off Lee midsentence, demanding to know how OpenAI had managed to surpass the capabilities of the AI project Microsoft’s 1,500-person research team had been working on for decades. “OpenAI built this with 250 people,” Nadella said, according to Lee, who is executive vice president and head of Microsoft Research. “Why do we have Microsoft Research at all?” > At the same time, even as the company began weaving OpenAI into the fabric of Microsoft’s products, Nadella decided not to abort Microsoft’s own research efforts in AI. During the tense exchange at the December meeting between the Microsoft CEO and Lee, other executives spoke up to defend the work of Microsoft’s researchers, including Mikhail Parakhin, who oversees Microsoft’s Bing search and Edge browser groups, Lee said. After grilling Lee in the meeting, Nadella called him privately, thanking him for the work Microsoft Research had done to understand and implement OpenAI’s work in a way that passed muster for corporate customers. Nadella said he saw Lee’s group as a “secret weapon.” While this is entirely speculation, it's easy to imagine that there are many levels of PR magic going on here, to share a quote that on the surface feels "leaked" and "explosive" but, among investors and clients who read beyond the (very good) paywall, actually shores up a narrative that Microsoft has a capability that significantly augments OpenAI's, and allows the existence of MSR to become headline news without even needing a product release. The Mistral deal feels like yet another step in this direction. Microsoft is not afraid of seeming "messy" in the press as long as it can control the narrative around its value-add to customers in the context of its partnerships. By contrast, the rest of FAANG's more consumer-facing positioning makes it a lot harder for them to maneuver in a similar way.
- karolist 3y ago
  > Nadella [in December 2022] abruptly cut off Lee midsentence, demanding to know how OpenAI had managed to surpass the capabilities of the AI project Microsoft’s 1,500-person research team had been working on for decades. “OpenAI built this with 250 people,” Nadella said, according to Lee, who is executive vice president and head of Microsoft Research. “Why do we have Microsoft Research at all?” The answer to that is till Google released the Attention is All You Need paper in 2017 there were no breakthroughs allowing models as we have now to be built, OpenAI being a small and nible team picked up on which direction the wind is blowing with LLMs and quickly brought a product to market whilst MS just did what corps do - move slowly (same for Google etc).
probably_satan 3y ago
They did that because they can't compete with Linux and had no relevancy in the tech world outside of providing business users with terrible software

bhouston 3y ago

Yes, Microsoft doesn't have to pick the sole winner in AI, but rather they could just start eating the AI ecosystem bit by bit so that they win by default. It is what large players can do. May open themselves up to some scrutiny for too many acquisitions and reducing competition though, but that is a separate issue.

lostemptations5 3y ago
And they are used to that issue too. A long history of it.
solardev 3y ago
"Microsoft recommends OpenAI as your default overlord. Did you know it can do everything your current AI can do, sometimes better, but always more profitably for us? [Switch now] [Ask me again in 30 seconds]"
datadrivenangel 3y ago
This is how microsoft has been doing data for at least 10 years (See databricks). Step 1: Get the industry leaders to be purchasable via Azure. Step 2: Slowly build your own clone and start stealing user share even though your offering is still worse.

JimDabell 3y ago

I’ve had similar thoughts, Microsoft buying Huggingface would be very similar to them buying GitHub.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
Please, god, no. I can’t think of two more antithetical companies.
- jahsome 3y ago
  Would you mind elaborating why? I'm not super experienced in the AI world, and barely use Hugging Face. Frankly, the name makes it difficult to take it seriously.
  - bugglebeetle 3y ago
    Hugging Face is very supportive of the open source machine learning community, both in the work they do with the transformers library, as well going above and beyond in developer and community relations to build an all around great product offering and user experience. Microsoft does the opposite of all of those things and has only made GitHub worse and more unstable since acquiring them.

btown 3y ago

This has me thinking about the context behind the striking quote in https://www.theinformation.com/articles/how-microsoft-swallowed-its-pride-to-make-a-massive-bet-on-openai https://www.theinformation.com/articles/how-microsoft-swallo... (May 2023, months before the OpenAI drama): > Nadella [in December 2022] abruptly cut off Lee midsentence, demanding to know how OpenAI had managed to surpass the capabilities of the AI project Microsoft’s 1,500-person research team had been working on for decades. “OpenAI built this with 250 people,” Nadella said, according to Lee, who is executive vice president and head of Microsoft Research. “Why do we have Microsoft Research at all?” > At the same time, even as the company began weaving OpenAI into the fabric of Microsoft’s products, Nadella decided not to abort Microsoft’s own research efforts in AI. During the tense exchange at the December meeting between the Microsoft CEO and Lee, other executives spoke up to defend the work of Microsoft’s researchers, including Mikhail Parakhin, who oversees Microsoft’s Bing search and Edge browser groups, Lee said. After grilling Lee in the meeting, Nadella called him privately, thanking him for the work Microsoft Research had done to understand and implement OpenAI’s work in a way that passed muster for corporate customers. Nadella said he saw Lee’s group as a “secret weapon.” While this is entirely speculation, it's easy to imagine that there are many levels of PR magic going on here, to share a quote that on the surface feels "leaked" and "explosive" but, among investors and clients who read beyond the (very good) paywall, actually shores up a narrative that Microsoft has a capability that significantly augments OpenAI's, and allows the existence of MSR to become headline news without even needing a product release. The Mistral deal feels like yet another step in this direction. Microsoft is not afraid of seeming "messy" in the press as long as it can control the narrative around its value-add to customers in the context of its partnerships. By contrast, the rest of FAANG's more consumer-facing positioning makes it a lot harder for them to maneuver in a similar way.

karolist 3y ago
> Nadella [in December 2022] abruptly cut off Lee midsentence, demanding to know how OpenAI had managed to surpass the capabilities of the AI project Microsoft’s 1,500-person research team had been working on for decades. “OpenAI built this with 250 people,” Nadella said, according to Lee, who is executive vice president and head of Microsoft Research. “Why do we have Microsoft Research at all?” The answer to that is till Google released the Attention is All You Need paper in 2017 there were no breakthroughs allowing models as we have now to be built, OpenAI being a small and nible team picked up on which direction the wind is blowing with LLMs and quickly brought a product to market whilst MS just did what corps do - move slowly (same for Google etc).

probably_satan 3y ago

They did that because they can't compete with Linux and had no relevancy in the tech world outside of providing business users with terrible software